No you argued that while refs are no worse, standards have declined. You can't reconcile the two.

Fitness is not the issue. Refs only need to be fitter nowadays because the players are, and because the game over the 80 minutes is miles faster than it was. Old time refs were as fit as they needed to be in their era. And Stan Wall was probably as fit then as many officials now.

I think there is more pressure today, that's for sure, but whether they are better or worse is impossible to say. The assumption, implicit in the question, is that they [iwere[/i better in the past, but as we agreed, there wasn't the same scrutiny from TV as there is now - the same TV which causes the extra pressure - and without that same level of scrutiny we're not really in any position to make any meaningful comparison.

One of the problems may be that some of the rules cause problems. Ball stealing is a case in point; the defender has the right to prevent an off-load by trapping the ball but he's not allowed to strip it unless one on one, so defender has hand on ball and it comes free. With the speed of events, often with other players coming between the official and the action, he has to decide how it came out and make a fairly instant decision, often when shown in slo-mo it turns out to be, well,[i probably[/i wrong, even then, with the cameras, from several angles, it still isn't always possible to make the correct decision, as the truth to whether he [ideliberately[/i stripped the ball, rather than tried to prevent a pass, is often only in the players mind. But, with ball on floor, the ref [ihas[/i to make a decision with the only certainty that he'll anger half the fans..

The same applies to deciding if the ball was deliberately played at to determine who gets head and feed - it's a nightmare. The sheer speed at which the game is played today also makes the referees job more difficult and I'm sure mistakes are made but equally these should even out over the season - just as they always did.

My own view is that had the old time refs had been subject to the same scrutiny that the modern ones have to live with, they would have been found to be equally wanting and Sgt Major Clay would have soon been back in the ranks. They though, were respected far more by the players than their counterparts today - their decisions were accepted and they got on with the game without encircling the man to make him change his mind, nor were the decisions dissected the following day by everyone with a keyboard and a Sky subscription! Course, that's just my view and it would be fascinating if we could bring out the film of an old game and, retrospectively give it the video treatment we get now.

yes I can - the refs are making more inconsistent decisions - it doesn't mean they are better or worse, it's just that their working environment has changed - as you said, the game is faster but we demand better decision making

the public (us) demands more from the officials and most of them aren't consistent enough to keep people like me happy - i'm glad you're satisfied with the current crop of refs, i'm not

Stan Wall ? I recall Kel Coslett nearly thumping him once at Post Office Road about 40 odd years ago when some dodgy decisions went against the mighty Saints ! I recall we lost narrowly - boy was he poor that day and a Saints fan to boot ? Is he still about BTW ? he used to be a regular at KR

I wholly disagree that there is any evidence modern refs "are making more inconsistent decisions". From the evidence of my own eyes and recollection I do not believe that there is any more or any less inconsistency now than ever there was. Certainly refs were not booed any less.


But no, we don't. I mean, some may do, but I'd reckon the vast majority just want to watch a flowing game, not over-disrupted by stoppages. (I'd also technically agree that most just want consistency in decision making, but actually that is a blatant and unashamed lie by them, the truth is that they want the ref to give all the calls to their team!)


Yes, I am satisfied with them, seem like a decent bunch, and overall do an outstanding job. For a recent example, the way Ganson handled the pressure cooker Wire/Wigan game. A masterclass.


I remember well hundreds of occasions when refs had to be protected by police and police horses on the trek back up the Odsal hill, so plus ca change. Wasn't Stan one of the Saints run on staff for many years? Might still be. Seem to remember him bringing out the kicking tee for Sean Long every time. Or it could have been his twin!

good to hear you are happy with the reffing standards - nice to see a satisfied customer

I respectfully however, disagree with your opinions except to say that Ganson did handle that game pretty well

best wishes

No, it was definitely Sean Long.

But then I would have said [ifor[/i his twin. Can standards of grammar and comprehension really have plummeted to such depths out in Ilkley, pater?

It's a tribute to your upbringing lad that you've picked me up on this one. Your schooling at Ermysteds might have been expensive but it was worth every penny.

If you paid to get into a selective school I would check your receipt and find the sod who ripped you off.

I didn't pay a penny. Mummy & Daddy did it through a trust fund.

Ah yes, of course, Ilkley tax credits..

My great, great, great, great Grandpapa worked jolly hard for his millions, or those in his mill did. It's only right I can avoid tax on my inheritance. Why should I pay for pinko, lesbian refuges when I don't have a need for them?

If you could make that a bit more 'folksy', dare I say Palinesque, (no, not him from Monty Python - the other Palin) and throw in a few gun quotes you'd be a shoo-in for the Republican nomination in the good ol' US of A next year (or is it this year, foreign news was never my strong point) if you were to win (should be easy, only that foreign, commie terrorist, Obama to beat) you could put all the backhanders into a fund and buy the Bulls, which is a guaranteed tax loss to set against your inheritance.

Though, as owner of the Bulls you might get more earache than your great, great, great, great grandfather did from the lazy mill workers he drove into penury..

Edited for accuracy. 17% of American voters think so.

Which leaves the question, who is the biggest threat to the American way - Barack Obama or James Child?

hopefully not Mr Child down here in Perpignan this evening but maybe Mr Thaler again after last nights' debacle !

I was about half hour into the game before I thought 'I wonder who the ref is', which probably sums up our approach to viewing. I then fell asleep & London had 50 points on the clock when I woke up, which led me to think I was still dreaming. No doubt Thaler had a nightmare during that period.

nah, just normal for him nowadays it seems !

the Sheffield v Fev game was well reffed for me as a neutral - Mr Hewer kept up well with play and made decisions without referring to the VR every two minutes for confirmation or clarification - he took the responsability even after some tight decisions but got them all right as far as i'm concerned - i'm sure other posters will disagree, such is life !

Sorry. I thought terrorist covered that...well, in the fevered right wing American mind, anyway..

BTW I would have to say that James Child's Twitter feed is just weird

wierd is right - look down the bottom to 'leaving on friday morning, look out frogs' for example

the guy seems like an incompetant xenophobe

We sometimes call them frogs (legs) and they call us les rosbifs, both are stereotypical and were, originally at least, intended to be mildly insulting but hardly xenophobic, imo.

Is anyone seriously going to be offended by either? Apart from the people who turn being offended into a profession and seek it out, just to complain.

Apparently Mr. Child needed an official escort to leave the pitch at Perpignan yesterday - a certain club owner rumoured to have spent last night renovating the town guillotine.

L'arbitre didn't please them then!! They are a very passionate, vociferous and demanding crowd (think the threepenny stand in the Boulevard) though it sounds like it was fortunate (for Mr C) they won...

Surprisingly nothing mentioned on Dragons or Rhinos' boards however. Robinson's attempt to cover Dragons' poor recent form seems to focussed locals' anger if so.

The frogs comment is stupid & infantile for someone in his position.