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| Quote ="Northernrelic"The compo and legal costs certainly hit the bank account, but you could argue that the "real" cost of the Harris signing was the disruption to the rest of the squad.
All signings have an element of risk -...'"
But nobody would have any great issue at all for any signing bthat simply didn't work out - and while Iestyn never regained the dizzy heights of his younger days, he was an excellent player for us. But even if he hadn't have been, anyone should accept that any signing may or may not "work".
The sort of issues which ARE relevant to the present discussion are first, and most obviously, the farrago as to whether we were free to sign him in the first place, and second the alleged gross mismanagement of the signing situation which if what has been written is true, resulted in us losing Leon Pryce (who wanted the No. 6 slot for himself and understandably so), Jamie Peacock (who claims he'd been told the cupboard was bare and then we sign Harris) and those sort of ramifications.
Could we have signed Harris AND kept stars such as Pryce and Peacock happy? Well, presumably, there would have been a way. It's only basically man management, after all. Leaving the direct finances aside, I was devastated that we lost the services of Pryce and Peacock and firmly believe that it should have been avoided.
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| Quote ="Ferocious Aardvark"But nobody would have any great issue at all for any signing bthat simply didn't work out - and while Iestyn never regained the dizzy heights of his younger days, he was an excellent player for us. But even if he hadn't have been, anyone should accept that any signing may or may not "work".
The sort of issues which ARE relevant to the present discussion are first, and most obviously, the farrago as to whether we were free to sign him in the first place, and second the alleged gross mismanagement of the signing situation which if what has been written is true, resulted in us losing Leon Pryce (who wanted the No. 6 slot for himself and understandably so), Jamie Peacock (who claims he'd been told the cupboard was bare and then we sign Harris) and those sort of ramifications.
Could we have signed Harris AND kept stars such as Pryce and Peacock happy? Well, presumably, there would have been a way. It's only basically man management, after all. Leaving the direct finances aside, I was devastated that we lost the services of Pryce and Peacock and firmly believe that it should have been avoided.'"
Agree fully with your assessment of Harris' playing record with us. He always played for the Bulls with commitment and no little skill, and to be blunt, his only drawback was that he just wasn't the Iestyn Harris of old, which meant the (reported) salary he was given was probably more than a little bit over the top.
I sort of agree about the man management too, to be fair, though it would have taken the wisdom of Soloman to square a circle in which Harris, Pryce and Peacock were all going to be happy. Though I guess the club fully realised that fitting in Iestyn would cause immense problems and, the powers that were, were prepared to let them depart. Not the best bit of business nor the most glorious bit of our history, it must be said.
To be honest we don't know the costs of the court case other than Leeds/Hetherington/Caddick were wanting a reported £3m. Since it was ultimately settled out of court we must assume it would have been much less, although, to be fair to the OP, when you add in the salary (reportedly, £1m over 4 years IIRC) to the amount of compo (maybe C £1m?) plus legal costs (both sides, presumably) then maybe £2.5m isn't all that far away from the mark for the cost of the whole "Harris affair", though obviously the salary was really part of the the overall 'running costs' and would have been there whether we'd signed him or not .
Whether he was free to sign was the big issue. Much opinion said the Leeds case was a restraint of trade, indeed Iestyn's own legal people said he was free to sign, so it clearly wasn't cut and dried and poor decision as it turned out to be, it wasn't just the club who got it wrong.
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| The way I see it we never needed Harris, signing him was so unnecessary.
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| Quote ="Bullseye"The way I see it we never needed Harris, signing him was so unnecessary.'"
Hindsight is a wonderful thing
I don't recall there being many objections at the time
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| Quote ="paulwalker71"Hindsight is a wonderful thing
I don't recall there being many objections at the time'"
Must confess I did have some reservations but I trusted Nobby's judgement that he thought Harris would improve us. As it was the effect of his signing led directly to Pryce and Peacock leaving. I wonder if Nobby would do it again knowing what he knows now!
As we know now Harris signing was the worst signing the club has made in it's history.
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| and it must have made a few other players question any loyalty to the club seeing Leon treated that way. The position he had waited so patiently for, playing anywhere asked of him in the backs, and the position that some said when he came into the side at 17 or whatever he was destined to fill.
To repeat myself, I thought Harris was past his best before he went to union, so when he signed for us I used my hindsight to say it was a rubbish signing. Any doubts I reserved to myself were about the contract, and that was because we had a partner in a major law firm as our chairman who surely would know about such matters...
and you have to admire Caisley for being able to dress that up so well that he is able to get investors backing him.
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| It wasn't Caisley who drove our greatest home grown player of the last 10 years out so that can't be pinned on him.
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| Didn't know Worrincy was home grown
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| Quote ="staffbull1973"Didn't know Worrincy was home grown'"
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| Quote ="redeverready"It wasn't Caisley who drove our greatest home grown player of the last 10 years out so that can't be pinned on him.'"
JP makes it plain who and what drove HIM out though.
Lest we forget.
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| Quote ="Adeybull"JP makes it plain who and what drove HIM out though.
Lest we forget.'"
Caisley gets blamed for SB leaving when its not the case.
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| Quote ="redeverready"Caisley gets blamed for SB leaving when its not the case.'"
Some may blame him; I suspect most of us, rather, recognise the contribution he made to it happening. I well recall some of the comments attributed to him at the time, and they were hardly helpful to the club.
To this day, I cannot understand why he did not recognise that people would perceive - rightly or wrongly - a conflict of interest situation?
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| Red, I disagree. Caisley was part of the reason SB left
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| Quote ="staffbull1973"Red, I disagree. Caisley was part of the reason SB left'"
Ok i agree once Sam made him aware he wanted out.
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| How did Hood 'drive' SB out of the club? I haven't heard this story before?
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| Sam's head was turned by his agent.....................
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| Did Sam's agent work in his clients best interests ?
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| Or betray the club where he was (is) the main shareholder?
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| Quote ="bobsmyuncle"Did Sam's agent work in his clients best interests ?'"
Yes.
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| Sam was an outstanding young talent, and wanted to have, and had the offer to have, a crack at the NRL at a very tender age. He had Russell Crowe calling at his house, and quite apart from the rugby dream, I can see the attraction of being amongst the Sydney jet set in the sun too - especially at such a young age. And it's hardly as if Sam hadn't heard of the NRL, either.
So yes, his agent no doubt did a good deal for Sam. Maybe it was not a bad deal for the Bulls (given as I assume Sam would have been off whoever his agent was). But surely it does not sit well with any Bulls fan for a major shareholder to be making money out of selling the club's shining star?
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| There can't be many fans who despise Caisley more than me for his crass handling of the Harris affair. The consequences of which are unprecedented in sporting history.
However he was the agent for Sam with a duty of trust to his client.
Should he have said to Sam "Look lad, You've been offered a great deal in OZ, one that is dead right for your career, but I'm telling you not to take it because I'm a shareholder in the Bulls and I don't want to betray them"
Wonder what Sam's response would have been to his trusted agent.
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| I have pinched this off someone from TRL: if Caisley couldn't attract investment when the bulls were successful, why will he now?
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| If Caisley is to have ANY credibility in my eyes, he must state clearly that he will NOT put Club into Administation as he is determined to keep our young talent. I might then reconsider my view of him. Go on Mr C, I challenge you to be up front and say it.
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| Quote ="bobsmyuncle"There can't be many fans who despise Caisley more than me for his crass handling of the Harris affair. The consequences of which are unprecedented in sporting history.
However he was the agent for Sam with a duty of trust to his client.
Should he have said to Sam "Look lad, You've been offered a great deal in OZ, one that is dead right for your career, but I'm telling you not to take it because I'm a shareholder in the Bulls and I don't want to betray them"
Wonder what Sam's response would have been to his trusted agent.'"
Maybe Caisley should have done what he has to do with his lawyer's hat on in his own practice where there is potential for representing both sides: pass the player managership to someone else.
Although, more to the point, why did he take it on in the first place, when it was impossible for him to do right by both player and club?
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| I find it distasteful to advocate Caisley.
I do not know whether it is Caisley himself or his Law Firm that represents players. He has quite a few players I believe.
As merely a shareholder in the Bradford Bulls he must put any moral allegiance to them to one side when properly representing a client.
I have no qualms about him taking on quality clients, that's good business, and we do not know what compensation he negotiated for the Bulls for Sam's transfer.
However, I totally agree with ADEY that Caisley could have put any dealings with Bulls players at arms length, and that he did not was deliberately provocative.
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