One thing which is mystifying me prior to the Featherstone game there wasn't any inkling of any of this drama. Would we be having this conversation if we had beat Featherstone.

I think the prize money is significantly less if your not in the top 4. I wonder if that was the final nail.

I wonder if the club never considered finishing outside the top 4. If you would have mentioned it at the start of the season that we would finish 5th, most fans would have laughed at the idea.

Exactly. That's what I can't wrap my head around either. We're still on the 15/16 central funding, we've had decent crowds this season, probably sold more than anticipated for the Fev game, so how has the cash run out now? It doesn't make sense.

The [ionly[/i thing that might explain it is this VAT thing. Perhaps somebody has messed up with the vat implications of something, and we now owe way more tax than Marc budgeted for.



That is next year's funding though. It has no effect on current cashflows.

Featherstone were sailing close to the wind and now they have a windfall game against Leeds. That on it's own had probably paid the players and bills for a few months and kept the Wolves from the door.
I wouldn't expect anyone at the club to expose how cash poor we could possibly have been prior to the Featherstone game on the basis if we had won we would have got the home tie v Leeds and a pretty decent windfall and probably sky TV money to boot. There would be no doubt ticket sales would have been paying this moths wages if we had beaten Featherstone.
The line between success and failure is very narrow these days. If we have to go part time to exist it's a no brainer as recent talk makes me lose love with this game.

As someone had stated on the lease thread, it appears that the current situation has made Mark decide what he now intends to do with the club.

Knowing that it would be a monumental struggle next year, it is possible that he has decided that now is the best time to run.

What isn't making sense for me is that there are still press releases from green stating that it's still business add usual. If he was just jumping the sinking ship, I wouldn't have expected any comments over the past few days.

Earlier twitter conversation between Caro & Mathers seems to confirm the lack of pay. Jokes about how they're starving and phone will probably get cut off soon.

Think it may have been removed now though as I can't find it again.


If this was the first time this had happened, I think I'd be more confident we could get through it. Unfortunately our history makes our fans feel differently. If I remember right, wasn't the players not getting paid usually the first step towards the lack of money and future admin?

Reading the T&a it sounds like Green doesn't have the money.

Greens back from ibiza this afternoon so situation might become a bit clearer.

Indeed. If we had the money why wouldn't we pay the staff?
Also, if we can't pay now at the peak of the season, exactly how is he planning on paying people through November and December in the off season?

You'd hope so mat. But experience tells me not to hold my breath waiting for clarity when it comes to the Bulls.

under normal circumstances I'd have thought november/december would be easier months to find money as club would have season ticket money coming in plus sponsorship money. Cant see many people being in a rush to renew sesaon tickets with all uncertainty though. Would think most would pay on gate or wait til last minute to get tickets this year.

The catch 22 situation. We need the money in to continue but people are worried about buying a ticket incase the club goes under. Regardless of where the Bulls actually are financially the noises in the press will make many think twice before handing any money over.

There is nothing we can do, unless one of us wins the lottery.

I am afraid confidence in Mr Green's stewardship of our club has hit rock bottom. Only the foolhardy would now part with their money for a season ticket and there won't be many.
Administration is upon us again. I just hope there is a plan and a buyer is waiting in the wings.

Strange. People kept saying what a great job he was doing running the business. Just smoke, mirrors and conga lines?

Everyone is jumping to conclusions. Maybe there is a perfectly logical explanation, maybe Marc went on holiday with the bank card or something.

I'm sure there is nothing to worry about....
Honest....

TBH, who would want to? We are a mess. A joke from top to bottom. It has been going on for years now.

What concerns me though is that do the RFL run a "fit and proper test" before allowing people to takeover clubs. If so, how could they allow the likes of Hood, Khan and (possibly) Greene to do so? They have failed here too.

I seriously wonder if there is actually such a thing as an honest businessman in Bradford!

I am afraid that the final nail is being prepared and only a Koukcash can save us now.

maybe hes just putting them on their toes for the way they performed at fev! On a serious note it doesnt make good reading hopefully the plan will become clear over the next couple of days upon his return

A few home truths.

Confidence in the club hasn't "hit rock bottom", I don't think anyone's expectations apart from a handful of strident social media types has altered one bit.

We have been in the financial mire often enough to know that it makes no difference what statements a club makes, it will either survive or go down the tubes. So many people insisting on calling for statement after statement after statement is really getting on my nerves, Green keeps putting out statements (FWTAW) but some people seem to want a statement every half an hour, and a statement after every message board claim or tweet.

Statements may reassure some, or worry others, but they are useless. Nobody who is now "worried" will become less worried, if they would, then they would have all become non-worried people at green's last statement. It is a circular farce, this constant demanding of statements.

Many seem to miss the obvious point, somehow (don't ask me how) that things were going passably well financially (for a full-time club trying desperately to make ends meet in a low-rent league) UNTIL the team got beat by Fev, which at a stroke has made a £3/4m hole in the budget, including screwing our cashflow for the "playoffs" - downgrading from "Tasty" to "loss-making". THIS IS STATING THE OBVIOUS - why can't so may see the bleedin' obvious? Whatever else there is, the players have landed Green with a HUGE financial hole where there shouldn't have been one.

If you accept that we were not running at any sizeable surplus, then WHAt DO YOU THINK happens when suddenly such a huge sum of cash falls through a trapdoor?? To me, it is obvious that that event was a seismic event. It is stupid to say "Well, surely Green had contingency plans for in case we didn't make the proper playoffs. " After some fashion, maybe he even did, - but whatever they may be, they aren't ones any of us might like, and the point is no plan can bring IN money. If it could then we would have implemented it as soon as we thought of it!!

The most ironic thing is that many people were calling for the players not to be paid after Fev. If indeed the players have not been paid (and I have zero information on the point) then in a pretty direct way, they are responsible for that. Fev have earned themselves a handy cash cushion by the sweat of their brows, and suddenly the immediate future must look a helluva lot brighter for them, with some mouthwatering gates in prospect. That could and should have been us, and I really don't think it is rocket science, whatever financial state the accounts may be in (and again, I have zero information on that either), to understand that having taken such an almighty hit below the water line, we will obviously need something to bale us out - we can't have had any money to spare, in my opinion, and now we have taken a red pen to our cashflow.

That must be the huge problem for Green, and as a businessman, no doubt he and his team will address it. But the essential point is obvious to the point of being banal: if ANY business MUST make an IMMEDIATE payment to HMRC to stay afloat, then unless there remains a big cash balance, those in the queue behind HMRC would have to wait. That, or somebody ploughs a wedge more cash into that business. Whether the Bulls are in that situation, I wouldn't know, but why is such a basic principle so hard to understand? Or do some madly believe that or operations this season have built up a huge stash of cash, just waiting to be spent?

Green has indeed done a great job running the business, we remain full-time after 2 full years of the Championship, so who can say he hasn't? Especially after what came before him? Those running the playing side have let him down, but I fail to see how anyone can attack Green's running of the business. I hope and pray he will keep us going - but if he doesn't then I for one could well understand why, and the blame would lie squarely with those on the playing side - not the business side. Make no mistake - we are where we are because of our on-field failures. Fev was the last straw, but not the first, and even then I firmly believe that had we won that game, we wouldn't be having these discussions today.

It is truly idiotic to even suggest Green has failed in running the business. That hasn't been and isn't our problem. At all.

Well, yes. That one loss means instead of home games vs Leeds, Leigh & HKR ( average gate 9k or 10k possible??) we now have 4 home games that we'll average 3k or 4k. That's about £100k per match difference. That's the cash flow problem right there.

I said after the Khan fiasco we needed a Koukash or bust and so it proves.

This club cannot survive being "run as a business" since it loses money. Downsizing to part time would reduce income as well as overheads and salaries so we'd be in the same place financially.

Like 99% of RL clubs Bradford needs someone with deep enough pockets to cover the losses. We need a Beaumont or a Koukash.

Green was never wealthy enough and I don't think he or Ferres were savvy enough either. Mistakes have been made that we simply couldn't afford to make this season (40+ man squad anyone?).

Everything seems to be carrying on as usual on the website.

To be honest, FA's analysis is pretty close to my own ideas; the biggest let down has been the football side of the business and not the financial one. 100% I never thought for a second that we'd fail to make the four, and I've been a Northern/Bulls fan for nearly my entire life, so given the let downs and disappointments suffered over the years, if I can fail to see it coming then anyone can.

Maybe my problem is that I'm generally too optimistic. Maybe I should start to look at sunshine as something which is always immediately followed by rain?

Safeguard Security Group staff are three weeks late being paid, coincidence ?

Boring. Why can you never read and understand a post, instead just invent yet another risible straw man, to have a pop?

Oh I can read. I just don't agree. Is that ok with you?