Indeed. the word "spin" came to mind when I was writing my post. The club should be getting their message out there. Be proactive, be positive, talk to the people. Don't wait til its too late, which is the feeling we seem to be getting.

I agree that a lot of work need doing behind the scenes. However, I feel that the team we have should be able to hold it's own and be higher than 11th. If you watch the matches they have large periods where they seem incapable of hanging in when it's tough. I don't think that they have the fitness of other teams. I know we hear that they are fitter than they have ever been but it doesn't seem as though they are fit enough.

If we don't sign a new half-back for next year it will definitely signal that the clubs plans don't involve challenging next year.

I don't see why anyone would shoot you down. None of us is "happy" with 11th place - how could we be? - but I think everyone - or most - realises now that whilst we are better than our league position, we are [ion average[/i indeed not that good. I also thinkthat the details and explanations that have recently emergede from the club - particularly about the youth set-up - has caused this general feeling to gain momentum.


To a large extent, I agree, though this season is a black sheep one compared with any previous year, but I think that most people would agree that the present incumbents aren't the ones who got us into this state (Harrisgate etc)

I don't really see that we are in a position to do much more. And to say we should "start winning" is hardly helpful. It's not as if we haven't been trying to win up till now and it's not as if there's much else the club can do to flick a switch and "start winning". I also agree very much about the feelgood factor, I have been banging on about this for ages and the show nowadays is for the most part jaded, and the endless piped music is one of the things that has killed the atmosphere. However first, there's no money to do anything of orders of magnitude better, we all know this. And second, one (IMHO) [imajor[/i factor this year is just how much pain the HOME fans have been put through. It may just be the law of avergares, but it has worked out that on far too many occasions the home fans have slunk away really peed off, for one reason or another. I mean, you can be a mid to lower table side yet still win the majority of your home matches, and that's the key to keeping your home fans happy. Away, you're not "expected" to win, but even if you do, (eg Saints) the vast majority of your home fans aren't there to expereince the buzz.


They do have these spells but I really don't believe it's a fitness thing. If it was, then the next week when they toil like Trojans couldn't happen, as you can't vastly increase your match fitness from week to week. I personally reckon much of the problem is down to lack of confidence, and I also believe that we are not well placed to cover for serious injuries to key men, and that has contributed too. I would certainly agree that repeatedly we have come up with prolonged spells in games (including games where we have otherwise played extremely well) where the defence seems to temporarily dissolve. I can't work it out but it has happened on several occasions, and usually in front of the home fans.

may be missing something but didnt building for the future tagline first feature on season ticket letter from burgess last year? maybe wasnt given enough emphasise at time, but hardly something that's just appeared at fans forum

and you can't really go into a new season saying "we're not going to be competitive for 3 years but when we do it'll be largely based on the academy system, in the meantime stick with it". The majority will not buy season tickets nor turn up with that line so you'd expect the club to put the most positive spin on it they could and focus on the positive (Burgess re-signing, a legend in Menzies coming over). The club could however put out what they expect from the new emphasis on youth development something along the lines of "we expect the extra work put into the youth development to bring through 2-3 to first team action this year and over the next few years".

Whilst it's all well and good to build for the future, if that future is too far away crowds will eventually drop extremely low if we neglect the first team. McNamara really needs to recruit well for next season if he wants to show me -and i'm sure alot of others- that he still wants to be a top club whilst still putting effort into youth development. There's no reason why we can't do both.

How long is the 'rebuilding of the club' likley to take?
Did the club need rebuilding?

But which wasn't used at all at the forum in January but come June after a terribly miserable season it was being rammed down our throat all the time.

Exactly the point I've been making.

No.

You seem to be up on the academy and reserves, is there anything that is now different now under the stewardship of Macca to when it was when Noble was at the helm in regards to lower grades. There's been a lot of talk that there was a blatent disregard for the academy, is this true and is the academy now in a better position to produce players to the first team?

"McNamara good, Noble bad" seems to be the accepted mantra when it comes to youth development now, however as we were told the club was losing money hand over fist, while spending up to (and over) the cap when Caisley was in charge - so where exactly were the resources going to come from to employ the coaching/scouting staff for more "focus" on youth development? Does McNamara feel so strongly about it that he is paying for it out of his own pocket? Good man!

As has been said it's good spin to deflect away from the under-performance at first team level across the recruitment, coaching and playing areas. Was McNamara "building for the future" when he brought in McAvoy to block Dave Halley's progress to the first team? Was he "building for the future" when he brought in the erratic Solomona jettisoning Brett Ferres as part of the deal? Has he been "building for the future" by bringing in older second rower after second rower, stifling the progress of Matt Cook?

The good thing about coming up with these slogans is that they do work on plenty of people, but they'll need to come up with some new ones before too long if things don't change on the pitch.

In a word no. One major difference is the level of coaching the receive now isn't a patch on before Baz Richards and Phill Tate aren't in the same league as Phil Vievers, Darrell Shelford, Mick Slicker Macca himself, Bernie Dwyer.

I think tbf the bringing in of older more experienced players could have helped Cook to progress, but atm I can't see Cook being anything more than a back-up player. Whilst maybe being solid in defence etc. he doesn't really offer us anything special.

No it doesn't. The current setup is greatly improved on youth development, and we have all heard and read the details, and that the youth setup is very much better now seems undeniable. The 'before and after' comparison certainly isn't as black and white as your mocking suggests, but it does seem to be a fact that we are devoting much more resources and structure to youth development than we were. You're the only one I've heard claim such a simplistic mantra.


We were? Who by? Or more to the point, given that all the accounts are in the public domain, why do we need to "be told" anything, when we can just look?

What the previous regime did not predict is the financial disaster that was Harrisgate. Which regime has had to pick up that wallet and run with it? Needless to say, the Caisley regime didn't budget for the financial debacle it all became.


Any business has to organise its affairs in the way it thinks most cost-effective. Your question sounds like you believe the resources couldn't be raised. But, obviously, they have been, and so I don't really get your point here.


Hearing him speak on the subject, he clearly does feel strongly about it. Suggesting that he should "pay for it out of his wn pocket", or seemingly criticising him because he plainly isn't, seems a bit of a nutty point, wouldn't you say on reflection?

doubt, given that until very recently hardly any public discussion or explanation has been forthcoming. But then, if by the time it does come out, all they can expect is people calling it "spin", perhaps they were right not to bother.


Very possibly, if you look at Halley now, and compare him with the Halley of then.


I was sad to see Ferres go, but he's not much more than a journeyman, whereas Solomona has genuine class. His signing hasn't exactly worked out, but anyone can get injured, and no player is ever going to be evertone's cup of tea.

I realy can't imagine why anyone would say Matt Cook's progress has "been stifled".


You mean the slogan you just came up with? Because I'm struggling to think of any "slogan" coming from the club like you suggest. And if there is one, then on who is it working?

I was thinking that yesterday while watching Wigan save Noble's butt for another week - the quality of Wigan's backroom staff was impressive - (I think I saw) Phil Veivers, Mike Forshaw, David Lyon, John Pendlebury & Shaun Wane.

I think Macca will already know what needs doing to the squad for next season.

Currently (without any recruitment or retention) this is what we would look like next season.

Platt
Sheriffe
CENTRE
Nero
Halley
Stand Off
Deacon
Lynch
Godwin
Hall
Burgess
Worrincy
Langley

Scruton
Kopzcak
Whitehead
Donaldson


OUT (some will probably be retained)

Menzies (

retain)
Morrison (A tricky one)
Jeffries (We need better quality whilst we still have Deacon under contract)
Tadulala (Deserves another yr imo)
Sykes (We need better quality, but may be retained due to being HG)

I do think we need to retain Menzies ASAP, and if Morrison goes we will need someone to replace him. We also need a strike centre and some real quality put into the halves. With the addition of Hall I think we look good at prop next season and hopefully Burgess will be used at LF and Langley can revert to SR.

Another way of looking at it could be that if Wigan's backroom staf are so good why are they not in a better position. Maybe too uch importance is attached to them.

A more worrying issue for me is OSV. We have had a poor season by anyone's standards and the crowds have drifted away. With the impending temporary move away from Odsal, while the redevelopment goes on, how many more people will take the opportunity to have a break from watching the Bulls.

Not me, however much I hate VP.

Have faith we'll go on a decent run from now on. A couple of wins and all will be forgotten.

In general I think the club is heading in the right direction, but there are some underlying shortfalls that need rectifying ASAP if the club intends to re-establish itself as a contender.

1. Defense, defense, defense. Ours is inconsistent at best, and you can't win games when you concede so many points.

2. Substitutions. McNamara appears to have little or no awareness of when to substitute players and how best to use his subs to have maximum impact. He brings off players when they're looking like they're just getting warmed up and brings players on with less than 10 minutes to play not giving them the chance to get warmed up!


By the looks of things the junior set up seems to be doing ok and we're producing some decent talent, but there's no point in producing the players if they don't get bled into the first team properly and are given at least a 20 minute spell to get involved.

Perhaps they have a crap head coach.

in particular we sam to rely over much on lynch and newton and keep them both on pitch for much longer stints than are necessary, blunting there effectiveness to a degree. Also concerned that we're relying on leaving menzies on pitch for too big a portion off most games. granted he's one of few game breakers we have but we can't keep asking him to play virtually the whole 80 every week at this stage in his career.

Why not, after 15 years in the NRL, he still looks like one of the fittest player in SL. He was good for Manly as an impact player though, if he is retained next season, once we have Hall, he could be used as impact when Burgess comes off or something like that.