The only chance a club has to "run as a business" is in SL, where the entire cap is covered by Sky. To get there needs cash and luck

I have no doubt it is true. But I can no longer justify paying that sort of brass towards a Championship team. To bore myself silly most weeks watching dross like Whitehaven, Workington, Oldham etc. and paying a premium to do it. If it was considered expensive compared to other Championship teams, then perhaps. But it's actually expensive compared to over half of Super League teams, which is crazy.

Whilst some clubs like Salford and Huddersfield might be relying on wealthy backers and I appreciate we can't rely on that same. But perhaps instead of bemoaning the fact that we don't have that wealthy backer, it's time to look at the way the club is "run as a business" and suggest that business strategy isn't bringing enough money in if they're relying on such expensive ticket prices?

At those prices next year in the Championship, I'll pick and choose my games. This year alone my wife and brother would have attended at least 3 or 4 games on the day, but changed their mind on the basis it would cost them £22 to stand up or £27 to sit down. I'm sure they're not alone.

My point is that you can pay those prices for so long on the basis of helping to get that promotion push, but everyone has a limit of how long they're willing to do it for before they give up and say it's not worth it any more. I'm near that limit now. If I could see a real improvement, I may not be there, but we've got steadily worse every single season for the last few years, and I don't see that changing, even if we're paying through the nose.

Not sure that's true, tbh.

In the words of our tormentors over the years, we'd have to "cut our cloth etc", but with obvious things like the RFL not getting the rent they currently receive and a decent proportion of fans, most likely still large enough to give us one of, if not the, largest crowds in the championship, accepting that it's just the way it is, in my opinion the club would survive, as one of the better teams in this division. What's more, without our opponents having the incentive of beating the, 'mighty Bulls', every week, the not so mighty variety might even beat Halifax occasionally....

I'm less confident than you Bulliac. We've almost gone under twice in the past 4 years and we all know what happened in 1963.

What the club needs more than anything is more money coming in. Marc Green needs other wealthy individuals to join him on the board. I'm not holding out much hope given that we've never had such an individual in the 153 years the club has been going. Until that happens it we need to sell as many tickets as possible.

As things stand I'm optimistic about 2017 and what Smith can do for us. I think 2016 is pretty much gone. There will be a big clear out and hopefully a leaner, hungrier and more balanced squad then. I'm already looking forward to it and will be getting a season ticket.

Exactly this

I'm in the same position. I've stumped up my £280 to sit in the stand for the last two seasons based on the 'you have to pay if you want a SL level team'. In that time I've seen two, maybe three, performances that would be described as 'SL level'. The rest have ranged from bang average through to total dross.

I just cannot keep committing what is quite a lot of money for me into something that it based on this illusion. If we don't go up (and we won't) then it will be a 'pick and choose... pay on the day' model for me next season.

If the club try to increase season ticket prices because we fail to make the middle 8’s then they can swivel if they think that I’m paying more to cover their incompetence. By over charging the fans for the past couple of years we’ve helped to provide the salary cap required to build a very competitive squad. I’m under no illusion that we can get promoted but if we end up finishing out of the top four (below other clubs who have spent a fraction of the money that we have) then that is a failure on the clubs part. I would have more sympathy if we had an injury riddled year but to go the whole season without one scrum half in the squad is inexcusable and I don’t see why the fans should pay for it.

Well if we don't pay for it nobody else will, that's the point, unfortunately.

I'm prepared to give another year as a season ticket holder under Smith with a re-vamped squad. I agree it's been a disappointing season and a missed opportunity and we've had far from value for money - not even close.

I always thought that the longer we spent in the championship the more the support would dwindle. It's a fact of life. When you go out of a sense of obligation it's never an enjoyable experience. I'm actually looking forward to 2017 more than the remaining games of this season.

If 2017 goes the same way as this season I too will find something else to do with my season ticket money. It's already spent now for 2016 so makes little difference either way. However I'm hopeful that Smith knows what he's doing. I expect a lot of dead wood to be shown the door - there's enough of it. We need to rebuild and bring in some stability and leadership rather than thrashing around signing players every 5 minutes.

I reckon that it will take a few quality signings to fire up fans enthusiasm again. So far we've only heard where our best players might be heading to next year. I'm not saying that I'm walking away but my patience is wearing thin.

Green/Ferres making contact with Lowes was when the tits went up.

it's largely just the consquences that were different.

We were getting just a few hundred speccies back then and famously didn't finish the season, of course, and lost everthing - the new club really was a new club with just a few individuals and, of course, a body of fans who rallied round with the new chairman saying that we, "didn't even own a bootlace". Whereas, more recently there was a buyer to take over the old businesses.

Agree about this season and next. A lot of mistakes were made about contracts when we started in in this division, These are up at the end of this season, and I feel much better about next year as it really is a new start in so many ways.

I think it would take a few more years to get to 1963 type scenarios but I think if we went part time it would signal us "giving up" on the dream of promotion and a lot of fans would take that as the time to stop bothering. I'm not sure how the club could sustain itself on a much lower income while playing at Odsal which has a lot more costs than it did in 1963. It'd be reminiscent of Hudders when they were in the doldrums up at Fartown in the 80s. It's only the backing of Ken Davy that keeps them from returning to those days. Hopefully one day our prince will come, keep buying the euromillions tickets (do we still get to play after Brexit?)

As i have said many times the only way any team will ever get promoted under this useless emperors new clothes of a system is if one of the SL teams has a total meltdown, so Championship clubs are relying on an abnormal disaster, the system should permit a team going up fair and #square on the merits but it doesn't. Looking at the SL table you'd have to be a pretty kind of stupid to persuade yourself that an MPG win is a possibility for any of the Championship clubs. It's not. Don't delude yourselves.

I agree with the fact about paying for a full time team. My problem is when said team come out with an amateur attitude. Putting up ticket prices next year would be as good as cutting the clubs throat.
And as for the point about paying next year to see how Rohan goes on, I can't help but feel we'll get the 'new team', 'not used to playing together', 'transition' platitudes trotted out again.

im hoping for a gesture of £5 off the current prices for match day tickets and a 10-20% cut in ST prices to persuade more people to buy them i know i would or at least upgrade from the tickets they have now.

Im also hoping our 40 man squad is trimmed sufficiently, we have loads of players who seem permanently out on loan id be happy with a sub 30 man squad and the under 19's filling in if needed or a loan or 2 coming in during the season.

If they stay the same as this year our attendances will drop as people just wont pay, ive not had a ST but been to every home game this season and payed on the gate, im not going to do it next year for the many reasons people have said, whereas a cheaper season ticket or gate tickets might persuade me to as it may with alot of fed up fans.

Just a thought. Batley have whitehaven at weekend. Wakey loaned a player not sure who to whitehaven and they have now called him back. Is kear calling in favours with wakey to make sure they win. Even heard whitehaven coached called batley if they knew why he had been called back.

Anthony Walker

Yep. That's him.

That's Whitehaven ultra fired up for that one then..

Much of it is pretty tough to call in reality. Where and when does financial necessity start to morph into "giving up"? For what it's worth, as said many times before, I broadly agree with FA's analysis of our promotion prospects.

Marc Green seemed pretty adamant when he said he wasn't going to pump money into the club and that it had to work as a stand alone business, ie paying for itself. Well, I've said before that Green probably[i has[/i put money in, if only to 'tide things over', before ST sales and competition money came in. What's more, the squads, particularly given their size, must have been costly.

One thing I'm certain of is that there has been a lot of money wasted on contracts for players who have barely - if at all - even pulled on a shirt. That has to end and hopefully will end after this season, when many of those wasted contracts run out. Running with between 25 -28 players will be far cheaper, even with a couple of 'better' players brought in. If things remain the same, I'm reasonably confident the club can continue in this division, even if it means moving grounds to lose the high cost we're paying the RFL and maintenance. If MG were to decide that, actually he'd spent more than he ever intended and that he wasn't prepared to carry on, then all bets would be off as I can't see where any new owner is coming from.

Figures I heard re renting VP were pretty similar to what we're paying RFL for ideal. Advantage is we save maintenance costs but disadvantage is we lose bar taking and get a much smaller percentage on corporate hospitality which would probably outweigh savings on maintenance. Plus a percentage drop in attendance from those who dont like VP for whatever reason.

If we go part-time, I'm done.

If we go to VP, I'm done.

My dosh on its own isn't in the grand scheme of things very much but I've been one of the permanent fixtures and so if the likes of me start jacking it in then the writing is on the wall.

I'm sure Green knows that if there is a chance of SL (debatable) then it can only be at Odsal, he knows VP won't work.

However and more pressingly, the part-time thing - the club may have simply no choice, but to sign its own death warrant, but that's what it would be. Sure, some pale imitation of the old club might hang about in the lower leagues during our slide to oblivion, but I'm sorry, it wouldn't be the Bulls, whatever the label said.

My suggestion is for Green to have a word with the money men from Canada, see if they want to go the whole hog and buy into the Bulls, and use it as some kind of dual reg pathway / feeder with Toronto. We have them with us anyway, and its an arrangement that would very much suit both parties.

And say goodbye to Bradford Bulls? He wants a Toronto SL franchise, if that is easier quicker to do it via Bradford and relocate he will

I can see that being the case on VP.

If, with a semi-pro team, we're talking about much reduced gates and presumably reduced corporate income, then a further loss due to an unwillingness to move is likely to be less catastrophic, as income from both corporate and bar takings is likely to be much reduced anyway with, or without, any move. Maybe the fewer fans remaining are going to be from the more committed end and more likely accept it on a needs must basis - or maybe I'm whistling in the wind with that one. The other possibility is to stay at Odsal and just use the stand, allowing the rest to deteriorate. If some of the old diehards were determined to stand they could take out the front seats and re-instate the old Paddock from the 60s and 70s. Oh, god I hope none of this is ever necessary....

Even if we were on course for the MPG (and losing) again, a clear out would be needed. We have some massive wages likely to come off the bill as well - Gaskell, Furgeson, Addy - maybe Purtell. AOB probably the only "big earner" from our time in SL to be retained. Combine that with shipping out a lot of the dross, it isn't that hard to see us having a consolidated FT squad in 2017 even if we finish 5th. If that's good enough to have a promotion tilt, we'll wait and see, but giving Smith a full pre-season I'd hope we weren't scrapping to make it in the Top 4 with less than a month ago again.

One thing the club does need to do ASAP if we don't make Top 4 is to lay out a plan for next year as never mind the off season, the Shield comp is also a convenient jumping off point.