I agree, I couldn't sack cummins on principle this year, he has been potteresqe in going above the call of duty with the crap he's had to deal with. But there are things that need to improve on the training pitch clearly and quickly that as you say have very little to do with money, and this needs to translate onto the pitch for us to have any chance.

The 17 players that took to the field on Friday and will on Thursday might not be the best 17 in the league but they are all good super league level pro players, we should be able to coach out some of the basic errors and penalties that make the game so much harder for us than it should be. Ulitimately the owner would have to think would parachuting in someone like the recently available Noble bring any more points than Cummins over the rest of the season? Im not sure it would at this stage, but he probably wouldn't do any worse so an owner more in the Koucash style might have been tempted to bring his own man in and take a shot.

But, it does still show that the position isn't [icompletely[/i hopeless, and getting (say) 2 points back would at least make it very interesting!

I always thought Cummins was too soft as a player to make it as a coach. He's certainly made me re-assess my opinion. Keeping a squad together has been a remarkable achievement. Until he has had a bit of time with a settled squad & club it would be an understatement to say it would be harsh to get rid now.

This

He certainly seems to have instilled a sense of unity amongst the players we have left. Franny has been involved in coaching for a long time now, he even went across to Aus for a time to further his coaching credentials. I would certainly hope that during all this time he has learnt enough to be able to coach a bunch of players into a cohesive team.
It's just unfortunate that he's never had the solid footing on which to make an impression.

I'm firmly of the belief that had we gone into this season and retained our original squad, we would be comfortable with respect to relegation. Perhaps even making a case for an 8th place finish.
Unfortunately things didn't work out like that, and I'm anxious now that FC will never properly have the chance to show just how good a coach he really is. At least, not with Bradford in the top division.
People worry that if we're relegated, it will be our players that are poached by other clubs. I say there's every chance someone will snap up FC as well.

I think we've shown enough against HKR,Widnes and Salford to say we've a chance of winning games and on that basis I can't see the point of changing coach right now. The influx of signings hasn't arrived although FC reckons things will happen after Easter/CC games.

We are obviously favourites for relegation but the single biggest factor in our favour is Wakefield who appear to have got worse after signing Scruton and Sammut. I know we're not meant to comment on others outcomes but how are they going to get 12/14 points. I can totally see why we may only get to 6 but from what I've seen there's 2 leagues now that Le Cats have woken up. Wakey, London and us, then the rest. It wouldn't shock me if the only teams any of the 3 beat were each other. Of the 3 the one marginally more likely to beat an injury ravaged side from higher up the league is the Bulls (just.

I genuinely think 8 points could see us survive.

I also think he should be given the season after the work he has done. I don't see anyone obvious to replace him with. I have to say that Powell at Cas has done a fantastic job and would take him but that is very unlikely. So, I would stick with Franny but if I was Green I would let LSH go and replace him with someone like Morrison or another strong forward. Most clubs have a pair of coaches. Franny seems to be doing everything.

It's easy to talk about changing the coach but that assumes there is someone better available, and that we could afford them. So to help FC it would seem more practical to bring in a few more players to the squad, maybe bring in a few more backroom staff to free FC to spend more time on the training ground.
But FC and the players do need to tighten up on the pitch as so far we are gifting way too much to the opposition this season and that is one luxury we certainly cannot afford.

Just to pick up and run with a couple of points made;

Yes, Wakefield are struggling, possibly because they are sticking by an underperforming coach, I question whether we should "get the jump on them" and make a change first.

Secondly, Powell is doing a cracking job at Castleford, and is doing so because the Tigers got rid of Millward.

Lastly, I don't want to get rid of Cummins, but I don't want to see the side relegated even more. And while there's a lot of love for Francis from the fans, it really could be a case of the nice guy finishing last.

All I'm advocating is that we learn from our past mistakes - boy do we have a lot to learn from - and remember how we stuck by McNamara. A more experienced coach to at least offer advice to Cummins should be an option to seriously consider, maybe there's something an older head would see that Francis can't right now.

You've answered the bit in bold with the sentence before. Loan deals aside do you assume there are better players available that we can afford?!

All in all, we're most definitely hamstrung by stigma as much as anything when it comes to anyone coming in. *sigh*

There are alarming similarities between FC and Mcbanana, not least we don't seem tough enough. However, given the resources at his disposal and the utter chaos he's dealt with it seems a wholly premature comparison.

I wanted Powell to be given the Bulls job but the emotion and the circumstances pushed it Fc's way and but for the mayhem we'd be further up the table, no question.

Whists it too soon in my view who would you go with. Mark Aston?

You are right "better" players either aren't available or unaffordable - but I mean't to suggest that just having a few extra "average" guys in the squad would provide injury cover, put a bit of pressure on for places

Good question, even though some see him as a dinosaur I'd consider Brian Noble (current availability is a mystery). John Kear pokes his nose out as someone who can possibly breathe live into us. I'd love to see super Glenn as an assistant, or Mat Calland too but that could be just because he's an ex-player I thought of him. I can't really include the NRL merry-go-round as I don't know who's available barring Matthew Elliott and Cronulla man. There's definitely a few more I haven't thought of. Any of these would probably cost a pretty penny, money we probably don't have, but just because I can't definitively say who would fix our season doesn't mean I can't think a change could be a good thing!

Yeah, I think it's fair to ask who, in their right mind, and we're talking about players as good, or better, than we already have, is going to give up a steady job elsewhere to come to Odsal right now? For a while, at least until stability has begun to be the norm, we'll have to face the fact that players are going to think long and hard before committing to the Bulls.

I agree in theory, I know we need 2 or 3 more players, props in particular, but adding average to average may not solve the problem. They may still miss the same tackles, give away the same penalties and still run the same poor lines that the current lads do. A change further up could ([ucould[/u) improve things for the current squad and make things that bit easier for the new recruits we need.

Whereas a coach, for example out of work or in a lower league, may "relish the challenge".

I'm happy to stick with FC to be fair, but if there were to be a change, Kear is just the sort of man-manager who inspires his troops to run through brick walls for him, similar to the way of Peter Fox. I don't know what his "donnin' oil" talks are like, but if they could be bottled they'd be worth millions.

Oh, absolutely -they've little to lose, to be fair. I mean they're hardly going to get the flak if we go down.

That said, I'm far from sure that there are many obvious candidates though, Kear excepted. Funnily enough, I'd guess [ihe[/i would [idefinitely[/i 'relish the challenge' as being right up his street - us against the world, up and at 'em, let's go get 'em - last one out is a cissie....

One of the biggest differences between Mabanana and FC is that, at the time, the majority of Bulls fans wanted rid of SM. This was the feeling for many a month, before the board finally realised and stood him down.

Where as if we look at FC, the majority of fans are happy for him to continue. Yes we may not be overly impressed with some of the antics that goes on for 80 minutes of a game, but look at the crap he has dealt with.

He has stayed through [iall[/i the recent administrations, and managed to build a squad of players that genuinely don't want to leave the Bulls.

I have no doubts as to his persona with the players (regarding him as a Mr nice guy), as we have seen many players shown the door for not agreeing with his methods (Whitehead, Sammut, L'estrange etc.)

Would we be at the foot of the table with the squad he recruited over the summer? Personally, I don't think so. Losing his best 2 props, with little ability (out there) to replace them, is none of his own doing.

In my opinion, FC will not be the next Mcbanana, and even if we are relegated, I would not hold him responible for the Bulls demise. I'd be happy for him to continue his work in the next division down, but unfortunately, I think he may have bigger aspirations.

I agree with all of that, and couldn't have put it better myself. The one "advantage" McNamara had was the lack of relegation, this time we don't, relegation is looming and I think Cummins' inexperience at times has been glaringly obvious. So I'd like to see some 'short term pain, long term gain' type management decisions to pull out every stop to stay in Super League. Going back 12 months it was this time last year we lost to Wigan (April 14) and only won one game - Salford - until Hull FC came to Odsal on July 19. We can't afford that run again.

For the record, I'm never discounting the turmoil faced by the squad over the last few seasons, that is simply impossible to do and the effect is immeasureable; but the world keeps on turning and come September two teams will go down, I would hate that to be us because we didn't exhaust every available avenue.

Think davy, you're maybe judging the T&A rantboard to be the arbiters of public opinion?

There was a vocal minority on here who wanted Macca out..well OK it was fairly even, to be fair, but it wasn't the majority - neither did the board "stand him down", he left to take up the job of England manager, IIRC.

I doubt FC would be in any real danger, for the reasons you mention and partly for similar reasons to Macca; ie, the club doesn't have the money to waste paying people off - particularly when the problem is much deeper rooted - cash.

From what I remember, the players had also lost confidence in his ability, many experienced pro's could not understand his (constant) selection choices.

He was stood down (mutual consent of course

) with a number of games left in the season. LSH took charge of these, until the board announced the capture of Potter.

In his early days, I thought he would do okay at the Bulls, but his transfer dealings were terrible. Towards the end of his reign, I was definitely looking forward to his departure.

I don't think FC has had a fair shake of the stick, however you want to look at it. He's the guy who's had to carry the can over one of the harshest times the club has had to endure.

An offseason with no financial meltdowns, getting to the end of the season with the same players he started with. These are the things FC has yet to experience in his tenure.

Judge him once the playing field is level

Therein lies the problem with relegation. Financial panic.

Ironically that may be while playing Batley next year...