According to your accounts for end of 2010 you were in a very healthy state. Where has 2 million quid gone in less than 18 months?

Suggest you do like me and send a personal email to Eamonn McManus thanking him for his support.

If you're genuinely interested in our finances, do a bit of reading on these forums, it's all detailed here somewhere.

Nonsense again, we swept much of the board for many of the SL years, and never had a sugar daddy, of any description. Nobody would suggest that the past is bound to be repeated in the future, but it takes a spectacularly myopic person to suggest that what has already been done, in spades, is impossible to do.

You don't half come up with some garbage but I'll say this, you are a trier, albeit a stuck record one.

Nothus most of what is around on here is rumour and hearsay. I have looked at published accounts for most SL clubs and it makes for very ugly reading. The game of rugby league is trading insolvent not just bradford. Clubs showing liabilities of 3,4 and more than 5 million quid in some instances. Dread to think what the 2011 figures will show as most are year end 2010. Giants and broncos in particular when you look at what they are worth taking into account shareholders funds etc are pushing the -£10M figure.

This game is going to implode very shortly unless someone puts the brakes on.

So what changed?

Was your club finances based purely on success on the field generating the required income? , if so you were doomed to fail eventually

I'm sorry. I didn't realise you had been incoming from a distant planet in a state of suspended animation these last few years, and could therefore have no knowledge of what changed. One day maybe someone will have time to go through the history with you.

Agree totally Adey, we cannot see that if the Bulls are relegated out of SL that it will be anything other than, as you say, oblivion!

It takes too long to begin the re birth of anything like the club we have at this moment. Without a substantial sponsor we will not be in the position to re-build anyway.

Agreed and already done, same with all the other teams who have helped our Hardship fund. Let's hope no other club has to go through what we've been through. It's been 6 months of uncertainty and anguish.

That's encouraging for the current clubs who find themselves in that position in the Championships isn't it ?!

So you dont really know either, do you?

Seems to me that pretty much everyone knows, except you.

Saints have recorded losses of £2.4 million in 2011, £1.35 million in 2010 and £940k in 2009.

McManus' support for the Bulls is little more than a Turkey voting against Christmas.

My blame is pinned squarely on the boogie.

Didn't saints recently build a new stadium?

Bet that wasn't cheap!

What do you mean by "recently"?

Losses of £450k in 2008.

McManus has presided over a club that has consistently shown growing losses. These are published facts.

One would assume that his hopes are squarely pinned on the new stadium reversing those losses... a bit like Salford

So put it down in simple black and white on here then

Away you go

I think this assumes status quo too much. Yes the Bulls where loss making under the last regime. But we have no idea on the costs and what is a fixed cost and what is a cost that can be changed or stopped.

Whilst profit and loss is not just governed by the revenue side of the equation. Unless you know the costs too, then it's impossible to say whether those costs would transfer on mass to the new owners.

You can say with some certainty that some of the costs will no longer be incurred.

The Bulls did have an overdraft which they had to pay back, so there will no longer be interest and charges as that overdraft is gone. There may have been other loans, such as directors loans with interest to pay back, these may also be gone, there could have been accumulated interest on unpaid bills, to other business' or lines of credit etc.

Put simply unless you can see the books it's impossible to tell whether Bulls RLFC can opperate without a sugar daddy or how much that input would need to be. A sugar daddy may want to put in thousands for their love of the club, but millions may not be feasable.

Thats a fair enough description , It is always just a bit worrying when a new to RL/Sport investor is being touted as a new owner , no matter what your backround , or how good a supposed businessman you are , nothing can prepare you to run what is 90% of the time a loss making black hole , so as long as the new owners fully understand what is expected of them , then fine

The reality of the situation is that in almost all cases , the on field success of the club cannot finance the running of the club , and any new owners must be prepared to put cash in , and quite probably more than they are estimating right now

I've never agreed with the 'oblivion' bit, to be honest.

The [ibottom[/i line isn't (and never was) that we start next season with [ianything[/i "like the club we have at the moment", but that the club dies, as 1963, and comes back from "not owning so much as a bootlace" to having a team on the bottom rung of the RL ladder. Retaining an SL licence, along with the finance and management to run a club in that division is certainly a line, bit it's far from the [ibottom[/i line.

Like '63, it would need fans and local businesses to coalesce around a symbol, just as they did around Trevor Foster and Joe Phillips to form a new team for 1964. Yes, things have changed and it certainly isn't 1963/4 but where there is the will, the way can be found and with the support base around this club the money for a new start at that level is more than possible.

The big £2.4 million loss in 2011 was due to playing at Widnes all year. The club was helped by the fact that it was expected and so it was budgeted for. But there is no doubt that running a club at Knowsley Road was tough because of the poor facilities. We just couldn't get the revenue streams that we have now.

McManus is someone who should be listened to. We were on the verge of administration when he came in. We now have shareholder funds of over £20 million as a result of taking ownership of Langtree Park. He has also put together a strong board of directors including Mike Coleman (some hedge fund manager in Singapore) who put about £6 million into the club to finance the final instalment and fit out cost of the stadium. The financial performance in 2013 should be a lot better.

As a saints fan, I hope you do come through it and I look forward to visiting Odsal next season.

Just out of interest, what do you think should happen to the next club that hits a financial wall?

A Financial Wall? What does that mean? Explain yourself, put up with facts or shut up

I was asking the neutral Saints fan