Correct. Walker Morris were the Solicitors on the P and A team led by Guilfoyle. I say led, I mean when he bothered to show up.

I love all the know it alls in the pro caisley camp with there selective hearing who cry fowl when someone objects to there ramblings on why hood did what he did! In an ideal world hood could have turned round a sinking ship and appease every one in the meantime (no mean feat when you have a fomer chairmen and biggest shareholder hoping his endeavours fall short)

If you like it or not caisley put us into admin not hood (at his second attempt so I've heard) so in reflection hood kept his part of the bargain!

Hood wasn't perfect and probably made some nieve decisions, probably helped all the way by Ryan duckett, wonder what hese doing now.

Has another poster had said to the victor the spoils, patronising and condesending posts!

Oh crap I'm looking back can't do that now all apologies to the know it alls, how dare I?

Thanks adybull in trying to explain to us laymen all the propaganda and spin (not just on these boards) but everything bulls wise in general!

Back in the box I go!

I am very much not pro Caisley! Read my previous posts. Its about a balance. those who blame just Hood, are just as wrong as those who blame just Caisley!

Blame isnt getting us anywhere! Look forward not back!

Yes in an ideal world, Hood would have saved the sinking ship that he inherited from Caisley. But if he'd have been more open and honest about how quickly we were sinking, perhaps more could have been done!

If we'd been busily bailing out, then we might have turned the tide, but we werent, and by the time we started bailing, the bridge was underwater!

I, like many on this forum, have had many exchanges with Adeybull, and have benefitted from his knowledge and experience in the financial field, and his discussions with the then board. much respect to him. he's unafraid to change his view based on new revelations. Its not a climb down, infact its a climb up to a position of more knowledge!

Where in my comment did I make any reference to believing anyone about anything? Or learning of anyone's intentions? I merely refuted the charge that Maislebugs laid at my door, and answered his question as to why I had assumed Hood would never make a bid. I have no idea whatsoever what Hood's actual reasons are. Like you - extensively - I can only speculate, and try and form an objective conclusion.

Like you, I am angry at being misled over the reasons behind the Odsal lease sale. Just like I was over e.g. the signing of Harris. But I can also see that, in the circumstances, there was no way WHATSOEVER that Hood, or any other director in his position, could have actually told the truth! Telling the truth would almost certainly have hastened the onset of the one thing the lease sale was clearly intended to avoid. And there are precedents. For example, before the 2002 Odsal settlement the Bulls were technically insolvent, and appeared to be reliant on the support of directors and Colin Tordoff (who the accounts show donated a lot of money to the club). Yet I listened to a radio interview with Caisley, defending the position of (IIRC) all but a couple of SL clubs that were likewise technically insolvent and basically rubbishing the idea that that was a big issue for the game. He was highly disingenuous, at least as much as Hood was over the lease sale - and he was excellent. He bullied the interviewer into submission with arguments that on the face of it sounded highly plausible (as well as a bit of derision). And he needed to, because the underlying charges being laid against the game were totally justified (as doubtless he was all too well aware). He did a great job in countering a strong argument IMO, and I applauded him for it. But he did not tell it straight; because he could not.

Have you ever been involved in or with the senior management of a company, in the public eye, where you are staring inslovency in the face (for whatever reason and whoever was to blame) and are desperately trying to find a solution without losing the confidence of those whose financial support you are depending on? If not, maybe if you had (I have) then you might admit that there may be some alternative interpretations and explanations? And that, as with so much in this sorry story, much may well be not at all what it first seems.

btw whoever said it was just the taxman? The club will not have been able to pay a load of other smaller creditors, many of whom will be small local businesses, and has had to trade on a cash up front basis for ages now. As soon as the directors are aware that a business looks to be insolvent they cannot prefer one creditor over another, with the result that virtually no-one gets paid. In the personal example I quoted, we had to run for nearly four months in such circumstances, until funding was secured (and formal insolvency avoided).

I agree with you in that we cannot and could not expect all the ins and outs to be disclosed in a business. you are right, a certain amount of confidence has to be retained. But I feel that having Caisley carry the can, holding Hood up to be some kind of martyr to the cause is ridiculous.
I can accept a certain amount of "spin" to buy time and look at ways out, but I seriously doubt whether Hood had the right plan before Caisley's intervention.

To me, the biggest wrong doing in this process was Hood calling in the pledges, knowing that Caisley wanted him out and was going to formally do so! At this point he should have capitulated to Caisley (as he eventually did) and told him that "its now your problem to solve." But he didnt. he took our hard earned cash and threw it in a pit! upto that point, I'd say the blame was 60-40 Caisley, but after that I can not forgive him.

I don't see anyone suggesting Hood is some kind of martyr and Caisley is the antichrist - that would indeed be absurd, and not supported by what facts are available. What I DO see - and a view to which I subscribe - is a bunch of shareholders who collectively have behaved like kids in the playpen, chucking their teddies out of the cot when it suited them and running and hiding likewise when it suited. In particular, they all seemed incapable of working together for a short while, gritted teeth or no, in the wider interest of saving the club. A plague on all their houses, as far as I am concerned - Trevor (bless him) must be turning in his grave. Maybe he could have shamed the lot of them to bury the hatchet - and preferably not in each other's backs - for a few months.

The lesson for the future is to never let that situation happen again. Which is why I would hope and expect the eventual new owner will be precisely that - the owner. So he does not have to balance and compromise between potentially conflicting views and seek and wait for agreement whilst time waits for no man, and can just get on with the job. And, equally, when things go wrong, the only person he can blame is himself, and if he chucks his teddy out he'll have to go get it back himself because no bugger else will do it for him.

I could argue both ways about whether or not the pledges should have been called in. As long as I was satisfied that all the shareholders were acting in good faith, personally I would still do the same again.

wasnt referring to you in particular Adey, just some of the posts on here in recent months have had, shall we say, polarised views.

I want to be neither pro Caisley nor pro Hood. I am Pro Bradford RL, hopefully with one new owner whose got the cash to get us through.

In that case, I can confirm that we have violent agreement!

Likewise isaac1 I wasn't referring to you, more the victorious caisley clans pointless posturing! That I find quite inappropriate at this time!

As like you I'm not pro anyone either, even though it may sound like I am sometimes!

But in ignesight I can see why certain people chose to be economical with the truth! Doesn't mean I'm happy with it though!

On your last paragraph I couldn't agree more!!!

I could have won the lottery if I'd placed a bet.

Likewise, Adeybull could have taken over the Bulls had he invested the same time as he has in RL Fans. But that's an opportunity cost-critique, not a reality.



You make the assumption that you are correct in your assignation Hood would have succeeded (in his proposed 'efforts') and it is 'higher' Why? We'll never know," is quite inconsequential.

You make a second assumption, that the alternative of Hood et al would be better, why? Notwithstanding where we are.

MY third observation is why, havent you personally, (given your apparent understanding, intellect, experience of and inherent knowledge of statutory legalities and a passion for the club) not personally (with persons of your persuasion/viewpoint) made an alternative plan for progression, in opposition to the current or previous situations?

I make no assumptions. I merely try and bring some balance in the face of what to me has been a highly disingenuous campaign from one camp to discredit and blame the other, IMO seeking to take the supporters for fools.

None of the shareholders has seemed able to resolve the fundamental underlying problem of the paucity of income in this city and a council that seems unable to work with premier sporting partners for their mutual benefit the way those in other towns seem to be able to.

I can spend time on here because I am sat in front of a screen working all day and much of the night too. That means That when others might take a break for smoking or to stretch their legs I come on here. So we'ii have less of the bollox about time available, please. What little extra time I do have, Some of that I give to trying to make a small difference through Bullbuilder. That is the limit of what I have the time to do.

So yourlast point: because I lack the time, the resources, the money, the motivation, the desire to have to entertain and socialise professionally and the number of years of life left. I have to earn a living. Those who would seek to own a professional sporting club are already financially secure and with the time to commit. And are prepared to subordinate much of their personal life to the club. My role in life has always been to be the support, in the background, to those who would seek to go out in harms way. To make sure that while they are out there doing battle someone is minding the shop, and they have a shop to come back to, and to make sure that when they do go out there they are properly prepared and supported, and do not have to worry about what is happening back at the shop. I am no leader or driver, nor do I have any inclination of so being. That particular skill set belongs to others, and it is they whom I would choose to support.

But what I seek to contribute on here is genuine and as objective as I can make it consistent with the opinions I will invariably hold. And when I disagree with something, I seek to attack the argument not the individual. Can you say the same?

I suppose only the would be investors really know whether it was Caisley's intervention that frightened them off. But the next best thing would be to look at the actions of the man that was closely involved with them, Peter Hood.

Peter Hood said that he would only call in The Pledge if he was very confident that he would raise the second £500k. Caisley made his intervention on 5th April. The Bulls called in The Pledge on 10th April, stating that discussions were taking place with potential investors.

There was clearly plenty of time between 5th and 10th for Hood to contact his would be investors and gauge their reaction to Caisley's intervention. If he really believed that they had been frightened off why did he call in The Pledge? Would the Bulls still be having confidential discussions on the 10th if those would be investors had been frighten off 5 days earlier?

Isn't it more reasonable to assume that between 5th and 10th Hood had met his investors and concluded that Caisley's intervention had not frightened them off?

Well, I've been watching Sky Sports News today regarding Rangers. It's interesting as they're in a similar situation to us, just further along the road. They've lost a number of players who refused to sign new deals with the Newco at Rangers and have left as free agents. The main reasons given for this is that they feel betrayed by the club and administrators as they had not been given the true story.

I see from the T&A that Sammut has similar feelings. Wonder how many other Bulls players might have similar axes to grind regarding their treatment in all of this.

Would be understandable. However, the pictures of Burgess seem to suggest he's committed to the club and plenty of others said they would like to remain. Even if we can just keep the young chaps together, that would be great. Better if they all stayed committed though.

I think the Rangers scenario players wise leans more to the fact they won't be in the SPL next year. Yes there will be some element regarding administration and what they've been told, but primarily I believe it's playing in a lower league as the prime driver for these contract rejections.

I hear unsubstantiated rumours that Guilfoyle will not entertain other interested party bids and will favour only the one put forward by the Caisley Cohorts, if hes at the Guide Post tonight perhaps someone could ask him!

I cam predict his answer!!

I would imagine if that was the case, any bidder feeling they were spurned by the administrator without very good reason would blast it all over the media and to the administrator's professional body, so I feel sure such a thing would not come to pass. The administrator is an officer of the court, and therefore it would be in breach of all sorts of things if he was partisan and gave the impression of being in bed with one particular party, regardless of who appointed him and paid him pre-appointment, as I am sure he would unhesitatingly confirm.

I don't think you need to worry - the administrators role is to get the best deal for the creditors and if it was shown he failed to consider a better bid then he would be in major trouble - think this is nothing more than a rumour.

it would be nice however to think he had more than one bid to choose between - but to be honest the situation the club is in once acceptable bid would be good

Why does that Jimmy Nail song Crocodile Tears spring to mind www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/n ... _/?ref=rss

Why does that Jimmy Nail song Crocodile Tears spring to mind www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/n ... _/?ref=rss

It's actually Crocodile Shoes! ....but I'm sure we could force a link somewhere amidst this maelstrom.

So now the administrator makes all the coaching staff redundant - a week before a deadline for a buyer to come forward who may have wanted to retain them! Curious isn't it!!! Gutted for Potter especially, with the crap he had to put it with yet has still delivered a competitive squad and for Medley - been with the club over 20 years I guess and has brought on much of the talent we are now seeing (and probably losing). Looks very smelly

Hil1969 yes I realised as soon as I pressed the send button but thought what the...

This could be Guilfoyle calling any propective bidders bluff, drastic but probably needs to be done, hopefully it works and the Newco gets as many of the old staff back in, but I wont hold my breath!

Its simply a cost cutting measure.
As said, although it doesn't seem a good idea for the team/club, from a financial point of view it will still run without them.
The team losing doesn't make a difference to teh Administrator, he simply wants to keep costs low, and find a buyer, or retain enough oney to pay creditors.

Wakefield lost players that in hindsight did not really help financially at all once we were bought but the administrator did anyway. Just doing his job I suppose and I guess you don't become an administrator to be popular.

F Off Guffhole.