You also have to remember that there is a huge gulf between the academy and SL. So just because a player looks class playing against the academy, there's no guarantee that he'll be able to step up to the next level and repeat that sort of ability at SL level. e.g. Andy Smith, he was tearing teams apart in the Bulls academy but he's never made it as a SL player. Karl Pryce is another example of a player who could dominate in the lower grade but hasn't really done anything in SL.

But I agree that the RFL does need to do something to protect clubs from having their best juniors snagged by clubs with big pocketed backers, but that also needs balancing with something that prevents those same sort of clubs from hoarding players

I agree. As do a number of Cumbrians I would imagine when Donaldson left. I was particularly chuffed when Cas were generously rewarded when Hudson, Lynch & Platt joined after relegation.

I actually think Andy Smith could have made it in Super League had his attitude been right. But it quite clearly wasn't.

Karl Pryce though I agree is the perfect example of it. I remember watching him play for our academy over at Fartown against the Huddersfield academy. He absolutely ripped them to pieces and they just couldn't handle him. He was stepping out of tackles and barging people away with hardly any effort. And yet in Super League, he just looks a lazy plodder IMO.

On a note unrelated to the actual topic, I was actually sat near Eorl Crabtree in the clubhouse that evening at Fartown too. I didn't actually know who he was (Hudds had only recently been promoted and I wasn't familiar with their fringe players) but the bloke was so bloody huge you just knew he was a player of some sort.

The difference being they left clubs that were in lower leagues for a Super League club. Let's be honest, with our financial situation recently, it can't have been about money....

I know what you're saying and there is a degree of it from every club. But two clubs particularly benefit from the lack of salary cap rules at that level meaning that someone rich can just throw money at young players. Exactly what the salary cap was brought in to stop at a first team level.


(Incidentally I was talking about this months ago before Wardle and Helliwell, so it's not sour grapes about them)

Do they have Peter Ridsdale on the board at Huddersfield? 26k looks too much for Wardle (although we only saw a little bit of him)

Craziness if true

IMO the quota exemption for young players should only be for players produced by the club they are at. That way the sugar daddy clubs can't just go around cherrypicking other clubs' youngsters.

If the figures reported earlier in the thread are anything like being true, then who can blame the players?

The difference being the Bulls benfited to the detriment of the other clubs. Or are you suggesting lower league clubs don't suffer as much? =#FFFFFF(I know you aren't really).

Not what I said at all. Again, read the bit below. I'm not saying this just because we've lost out and I'm not saying it's different if we do it. In fact, that's not the point I'm making at all, so if you're just going to ignore that, then I'll just ignore the comments.

I'm ignoring you first.

Anyway. On the subject of Helliwell, if he ends up working with Brett Hodgson as a kind of mentor, it could actually make him even better. Taking away the money issues, it would surely benefit his long term game a lot to work under Hodgson for 2 years. I can't see him getting much first team action unless Hodgson, Riley and Hicks are injured, but it may make him a better player when he eventually does get a chance.

Weren't the Bulls the first SL club to offer payments to Amateur clubs that produced players that signed for us? It wasn't much money but it was more than anyone else was paying IIRC. Do we still do that?

One thing the RFL could do is at least increase the £100 per week fee that seems to be paid should a junior jump ship.

Although this won't stop the movement, the clubs who brought through these players may receive a more realistic fee for the potential any such player may show. It may also make the richer clubs think twice about approaching these juniors as the fee becomes a little more material in financial terms.

OK, you won't stop the movement but the Wires and Hudds of this world may not have offered the same level of salary quoted, given that they must also fork out a fee that may not value the player as it previously once did.

We'll be due around 15k from Warrington if this is a confirmed signing.

So along with the 26k they'll be paying him, it's a big risk IMO spending 39k on a relatively unproven player.

I just hope that this isn't another Ryan Atkins etc.

Only just read the T&A and yes he's gone.

Christ on a bike. Somebody throws a stupid figure onto the internet and it becomes fact. If anybody think Warrington pay academy players anything like that they are deluded.

Perhaps the lad wanted to move to a club that is moving forward with a good coaching set up? Sounds like sour grapes coming out of your club to me.

To you. It would.

Its not.

I can assure you of that, from previous discussions with club officials.

You lot and Hudds have serious previous for raiding our academy (or trying to) and paying far more (not just a bit) than we can, since you both have major funding sources that the Bulls lack.

maybe both you and mick should read the thread properly. The 26k mick mentioned was what hudds offered wardle, who's a lot closer to 1st team than hellewell. still over the odds for a u20s player mind.

unfortunately for you the 12k compensation figure is accurate and is set by RFL so there's no getting out of paying that one

And I can assure you that Warrington do not such fanciful sums as £26k to their Academy players.

If we have done all this "raiding" of your academy can you point me in the directiuon of which players have made the move before Halliwell?

The 26k was for Wardle who is now at Huddersfield.

The fact of the matter is that your club Like Huddersfield will have to pay for raiding our academy.

Steve Moran's pocket strikes again.

Another mediocre Bulls reject?
WTF has Ryan Atkins done?

its sad to see halliwell go but its not all bad as think bulls have kept the best of the bunch in adam o'brien and john bateman as from all accounts plenty of clubs were after bateman think wire offered alot more money then bulls but he loves the club so signed for bradford he has the makings of a star.plus think wire have had a big clear out in academy and its not been handled very well.

know from what james donaldson told me thats one thing he likes about the bulls they look after there young lads

John bateman is good, but he has been told hes not just good hes brilliant, alot of un needed praise has been thrust at him, at his previous club his ego got the btter of him and racked afew other people off, he seems to have matured alot now tho and is passing ball around alot more rather than just trying to do it all himself, hes only young and alot can happen before he breaks thru..


I was hoping elliott minichello would make it with us, but unfortunately he left our scholarship and went to leeds, and that lad does like the bulls, hes one player i enjoy reffing.

During his time at Warrington? Nothing apart from:-

- Playing in every SL game last season
- Scoring 2 tries in a final
- Winning said final
- Getting picked for England (albeit he played a bit crap)

I'd hate to see his a lot crap.