what the has all this got to do with OSV?

or infact whats it got to do with the Bulls?

where's this going?

Well said.
If disstasteful points are made OT then they should simply be ignored here rather than given credence with a response.
Our group liked the facilities, stands and viewing at VP but campaigned for a return to Odsal like so many. We found no problems with access and safe parking by being prudent. Early problems with officious stewards who were used to moronic football supporters later gave way to much latitude and a happier atmosphere. The away supporters we met were happy to have a covered stand that was within easy sight of the action.
Frankly, it is a good stadium albeit without the traditional standing area that we are used to.
God forbid that we need to move from Odsal, and we'll do everything to keep us their - BUT Odsal is a money pit that grows deeper each year.

I know, I'm sorry but if you don't respond to statements about the bnp being ok you may as well agree with them. It's like not voting and then complaining when they get seats on the council.

The OSV might happen and might not. I have mixed feelings about the club becoming involved.
Previously they distanced themselves from the project. The council were supposed to be behind it and be pushing for a modern sports facility for the whole area which would include a stadium for the Bulls. It was a local government project and they should have made sure it progressed.
Sadly it got delayed and delayed and delayed so much so that the club were quoted in the press as saying they thought it'd never happen.
Now they're actively pushing for it they maybe think that this is the last desperate push before giving up altogether.

Becuase of the huge costs invlolved with Odsal and the fact that they're only ever going to get bigger and bigger, we have no choice but to push for the OSV.
If we stay we'll have to go into debt to replace the concrete because of H&S regulations. If we leave and go to VP we will gradually die off because the fans do not like VP.

The only thing we can do as supporters is write to our councillors and tell them we will not vote for them again unless they see we get our stadium.

Sod the niceties and the pros and cons. This is vital to the future of our club. If you want the Bulls to die then don't write to your councillor. If you want us to continue then find your councillor [url=http://www.writetothem.com/?keyword=councillor&creativeid=521752599&gclid=CKLTw536xpACFQgsQwodcheoXwhere[/url and write and tell them.

You can email them, no stamp needed and no trip to the post box. They will ignore your email and send you back a crap standard reply, but if we send enough they will realise they can't go on ignoring them.

Perhaps countering the points rather than 'taking umbrage' would be a tad more productive for the poor lambs.

I think the fact that thousands of people have been going to watch sport there for over 100 years without the incessant whining seen when the Bulls fans had to go there for a couple of years is countenance enough.

You know as well as I that the clock is ticking on Odsal Stadium's financial viability and is in the 11th hour. We know that the council will never commit money to the OSV other than a pay off to get rid of their £1m losses per year on the Richard Dunn abortion. You will remember that under our lease/purchase council agreement we must play at Odsal for a fixed number of future years othewise there needs to some serious payback. So all looks Black But:-
I think Hood has performed well over two difficult financial years and will need to perform even better over the next two.He's proving himself a good negotiator
If the Bulls have to go to VP then we will follow them. If they have to go ANYWHERE we will follow them & bo**ocks to the namby pambies who say "Its too far", "Can't park outside the door"

I'd love to stay at Odsal and even without a roof. On a nice summer day it's fantastic place and one of the best sporting grounds (certainly for character) around.

But we have to face facts. The OSV would be great but is it really that realistic? There have been plans a foot since I started supporting Bradford in 1991. The council don't have any money as they have a mound of earth to support in the City centre. Unless a benefactor comes along with a large lump of cash I can't see the Bulls doing anything other than leave Odsal. Whether it be to Valley Parade or a brand new site.

I never missed a game at VP and of course I would go. I spoke to a lot of people about their preferences though and a lot of them made it clear that if it became permanent they would not continue going to home games.

I'd love to be able to say that the Bulls could count on a good sized core support at VP but it won't happen.

Moving back to the topic, I believe there is some political will for OSV to happen. However, there are a number of very serious obstacles to overcome;

1. Horsfall Playing Fields - Must be sold against strong public will to do so
2. Funding Gaps - Still very real, though closing all the time thanks to the College's input and sporting grants
3. Build Costs - Are rocketing thanks to the current construction boom in the UK which is set to continue with 2012 Olympics etc. so fixing a budget is proving difficlult
4. Bradford City, Keighley Cougars, Bradford Park Avenue - It's tricky politically for the council to support one professional club over others - Hence the comments in my original post, the Council's Executive must at least appear to be looking at options for supporting both or all, even if they aren't seriously considering a groundhare. Mark Lawn is actively trying to buy back VP from the Gibb family who aren't playing ball, and is less interested in a groundshare than either the Bulls or the Council in truth.
5. Bradford Council - Seem to be the only public authority capable of turning silk purses into sows ears - They really haven't got a clue how to pull this thing off, and to his credit our Chairman is the real driving force behind the whole thing, and he's proving himself to be a rather skillfull negotiator behind the scenes - Hat's off the Hood if it does happen he'll be the only reason it does!

You miss the point.

City fans didn't have an issue with car parking, bouncy castles, stewarding ( officious - yes ) and the "local residents". You'll notice that I refer to them politely unlike many comments from Bulls fans at the time.

City fans have an affinity to their ground through history and events. The "local residents" opened up their doors to hundreds of City fans and looked after them after the fire as well as driving many fans to hospital but they were universally derided by Bulls fans.

Why would City fans need to counter "the points" - when most of the points were utter cr*p ?

...... your point above would be very valid if it weren't for the fact that the VAST majority of monies promised to fund the OSV is proposed to come from Council capital receipts. You know the sale of Horsfall and Richard Dunn land and advanced cash in recognition of Dunn's losing money.

The Bulls by comparison have promised to furnish and decorate any areas that are built exclusively for their use.

It's an interesting comparison purely provided for balance.

The Richard Dunn centre loses a lot of money as it stands. It's badly designed and doesn't really serve the purpose it was supposedly designed for.
The amount of land it takes up is huge and that land is very valuable, being in a reasonably good area and right at the top of the M606.

A new modern sports centre would save the council a lot of money and that has been taken into consideration as part of the plan.

I agree to an extent BUT considering your very valid points in 1 & 4 how do you propose the Council address them ?

Make no mistake, I've said it before, if they could get it to work they would. They probably thought they had the monkey off their back with the £5m payout and handing responsibility to the Bulls but that worked well didn't it, £5m spent and now desperately seeking more money for the running of Odsal.

I suppose the Council could give the Bulls £45m, City £50m and proportionately less to BPA, Cougars, Eccleshill and Thackley.

Can you see Council Tax payers voting for that little lot ?

Since time immemorial, all the Council have ever done about Odsal is use ratepayers' cash to line the very deep and well-tailored pockets of a long and distinguished line of consultants. Nothing ever came of any of them, it was all a monumental waste of cash, nothing ever will, nothing has changed.

We don't have anyone in the city with either the strategic vision, or with the head-knocking-together clout, to put together a "new Odsal".

With regard to the OSV, here we have references to a key date in March, only 3 months away, and yet here for the first time some bozo says, "Wait a minute, did you know, there's another pro club in Bradford. Shouldn't we maybe speak to them, and look into whether we could do something else?"

IF City were/are ever to have anything whatsoever to do with OSV discussions/alternatives, then why these past few long years have the Council not mentioned it to them? Are we really to believe that at 11.59 they have just realized that City and VP exist, and they and their fans are a factor?

Or why if remotely interested in some collaboration, have City not been in touch with the council?

Can it [ireally [/ibe that our well-paid consultants either omitted, or were not briefed, to consider these wider issues?

I can sum up what has been achieved with all the wasted millions on the back of a fag packet:-

"The Bulls can go to VP, or go hang. The OSV is dead in the water."

Alas your standpoint isn't proving particularly balanced is it. You're still steadfast in the inaccurate opinion that Bulls fans didn't like VP purely because it was further away.

Say something positive about Bulls fans; call it a challenge to see whether you're just a City Agent Provocateur or not.

In accepting that NOWHERE would have been good enough for the Bulls, because Odsal means too much to the fans, it is unfortunate that people deride the grievances of Bulls fans as being entirely groundless (so to speak).

The comments that were made about local residents (I'm not familiar with them) were made for what reason would you say? Mischief? Snobbery? I'm not making a point here I genuinely want to know.

I don't understand the problem with moving either?

Teams move, for all kinds of reasons, teams move! Stadia is very important, tradition is very important, I stood on my father's shoulders (god rest his soul) behind the posts at Odsal every Sunday, every Winter in the 70's, I helped my grandfather (god rest his soul) over the wall at Valley Parade on 11th May 1985 - These things are all very important personally and collectively, and I would never want the memories of those two men or those poor souls who perished at VP forgotten, but we do their memory a disservice by not looking forward to the future they can't have, which is far more important for our own children and the long term viability of both clubs.

We must have a stadium fit for purpose in the 21st century without tens of millions of pounds it can't be Odsal, City don't even own VP - So maybe just maybe a new stadium to share is the way forward - Rule nothing out, rule everything in!!

Not at all, as I have said people whined about anything (location, car parking, no bouncy castles/cheerleaders, stewards, seats, food and drink etc etc) and everything just to excuse the fact they couldn't be d supporting the team they claimed to support. None of these things stop people going to watch their team.


A few of them are quite nice, one or two even have a sense of humour.

I disagree entirely. I went to every matchg at VP and complained about it so it DIDN'T stop me supporting my team. However, it was supposed to be a short term solution. Were we to move to VP lopng term then you expect to switch to a stadium with better overall facilities. And you would still have to get the RFL to allow us to play on a pitch that doesn't meet the miniumum requirements on a permanent basis.

Well, that's two of us.

I'm surprised that the complete unsuitability of the pitch hasn't been mentioned before either. Unless you move one end of the ground backwards 10-20 metres that is insoluble, and rules VP out in a breath.

But how does closing Odsal and moving to VP - even if that were possible, which it's not - solve the Richard Dunn problem? Anyone? Or do we just do away with Odsal, do away with RD, and leave a huge sporting/exercise black hole in south Bradford? (But get to build some more houses).

The problem is people who didn't and won't go though, not those who did


Surely you aren't trying to claim Odsal has better facilities? Facility wise the only advantage I can see is the ability to stand.

Sure Ken Morrison could spare some space in one of his supermarket carparks for a kick around.

Or centenary square, park at the heart etc could become a new sports stadidump

I'm pretty sure that the Council would have no problem funding a replacement Sports Centre by itself either through existing capital budgets or the realisation of some of Dunn's existing land.

If Dunn's is losing as much money as they say then it's a "no brainer" with no other "schemes" and "political problems" attached.


Well South Bradford will be losing the swimming pool under current OSV proposals so what would that leave ?

Anyone would think that the athletics track, a non-league footy stadium, 4 x 11 a side pitches and a cricket pitch that are proposed to be built over by houses didn't already exist in South Bradford

BM, I think you make some good points. However, I believe the situation boils down to this:

[list[*If Bulls were to move to VP permanently, they would not be viable as a top flight rugby league club.[/*:m
[*If Bulls stay at Odsal as it is, they will sooner or later not be viable as a top flight rugby league club.[/*:m
[*Bulls have no realistic means of developing the stadium without Council backing.[/*:m
[*It is in Bradford Council's interests to have the Bulls continue as a top flight rugby league club.[/*:m[/list:u
Do you disagree or take issue with any of the above statements? Should Bradford Council allow another of the city's sporting institutions go to the wall when we know that with the right facilities they can more than pay for themselves in the long run?

fundamental problem we have is we are only leaseholders of odsal so we cant borrow against value of land. This also makes it difficult to attract outside investment other than grants.
council would probably sign ground over to us but then we would become liable for cost of enviromental cleanup which is needed, which is probably a significant percentage of costs of OSV.