There's just widespread mayhem in London at the minute. If you get enough people over a wide enough area willing to cause disruption and violence it means the police are spread too thin and cannot contain most situations.

Some of the acts are utterly deplorable. Looting is one thing, and in the main nobody is physically hurt, but setting fire to builldings is disgusting and putting peoples lives at risk.

I like the way the Police have resorted to asking parents to phone their children and ask them to come home. I've seen footage of some looters where it looks like the kids are there with their parents taking direction on what to take!

I don't know if it's because we've gone through this (to a degree) in our own city and have seen the devastation and harm this causes to an area whether it strikes a different cord, but I've felt vert uneasy after last nights viewing on the tv.

What are the answers?

In regards to the actual looting and rioting, I don't think you can bring the army in - it might stop the violence this time round fairly quickly, but long term it will probably have a detrimental effect. Whenever a situation "gets out of hand" nobody will have faith in the police to be able to deal with it and we'll constantly become a country that sees kids run riot whenever they want right up until the army need to get involved. The Police need more powers and resources to be able to deal with this. Cutting back on the number of police will only allow this sort of activity to happen again and again.

Longer term - you can guarantee that these areas of London will be given millions (if not more!) money to "re-generate". As ever, close to home for the government will mean that they help those closest to home while Bradford (please do correct me if I am wrong) received little in terms of a governement bail out to sort out the mess that was left behind.

At the looks of the TV coverage, the majority of the carnage is being carried out by teenagers and young adults. These people have been brought up with knowledge of their rights, but no grounding on what their responsibilities to society are. Teachers and schools require greater power and authority to be able to discipline children from a younger age. These kids don't get appear to receive values from their parents, and, kids may spend longer with teachers than they do with their own parents, so distilling these values and responsibilities needs to be provided through schooling.

One example of the lack of parenting now rife in society was a story from my wife when she does her regular school run with my two children. She saw a couple of teenage lads defacing something with a marker, but was reluctant to say anything as she's not the biggest lady in the world. However, a few seconds later a fellow parent (who is a big bloke) saw these lads and what they were doing, (and as it turned out actually knew one of them by name), asked what they were doing and actually encourgared them to carry on!

What can you do?

My daughter (of 5 years) was visibly upset over the weekend when asking about the bus fire on the news in Tottenham asking why the firemen weren't putting out the fire and if anyone was still on it. Getting out of that proved quite difficult and I know you can only protect your kids for so long from incidents like this, but as a 5 year old, she knew that what she was seeing was wrong. We need to promote correct values into children as soon as possible and schooling is going to be the most efficient way of doing so.

On a personal level I'd love to see the Police (or the army for that matter) clearing house throughout the streets, but it's not going to happen. We're going to have to wait for the rain to come and put these people off going outside.

Those caught on camera without covering their faces will be going down just like they did in Bradford. But until then the fuzz have got it all to do to cover such a wide area.

Hopefully it'll chuck it down soon then it'll all calm down.

No bother in Bradford then?

Don't recall any looting in 96 or 2001, correct? Nit playing "who had the worst riot", but it's clearly a big aspect of this current conflagration.

Nothing going on in Bradford yet. Nice sunny day tho, not good. Hopefully memories of what happened up here are fresh enough to stop it kicking off again.

They're going to have to build a new prison to house everyone that's been kicking off, there's no room left as it is.

Sorry mate, but there was a lot of looting in Bradford in the riots. Even if it suited much of the media to play it down and blame it instead on all the usual deprivation/racism/exclusion received wisdom. The biggest of all was probably at the BMW dealership on Emm Lane, where the police said that the rioting was used as a cover for people to steal cars. All that did was drove the dealership out and across the city, to about as near to Leeds as you can get. And a lot seemed to be orchestrated by drug barons, from what I was told, again for their own purposes. Wonder if that has been a factor this time?

Getting ed off that people are fuc*ing up this country like this. I'm 16, far from well off but I wouldn't dream of doing the crap they are, attacking a children's hospital and setting fore to everything. Generally giving youth a bad name. I swear to god if I was down there I would literally kill the rioters. Or whoever orchastrated it. Put it this way I'd manually castrate them myself without the use of any numbing medicine. And the police?? Why the hell arn't they using excessive force? They shold be beating the crap out of the rioters, Imo they violated their human rights when putting others in danger. Would be a farce if the army had to get invoved but rather have them atm than the cops.

There's been no evidence of an attack on a childrens hospital - don't believe everything you read.

I understand your anger, but people should be careful before certain actions are taken, otherwise further more damaging consequneces arise.

The biggest problem is discipline. Kids learn early in school that they can get away with doing anything at all, without a finger being laid on them. A few years later, some spotty youth can play "Mr hard man" by blatantly walking up to a line of 50 riot cops and bricking them, safe in the bizarre knowledge that they will just let him get on with it.

It is hard to draw an acceptable line of physical restraint for teachers - and many don't want one - but equally I find it hard to stomach that a battalion of heavily armed police let such a guy do what he likes. It is no use saying they can't arrest him, as that would take the arresting officers out of the action - these are special situations and some form of emergency powers should exist to permit the apprehension of such scrotes.

Forget arresting the time for that is done, gone. Now is the time for force to be used. If people arn't scared of police in this situation then there's something wrong. Action needs to be taken and quick before innocent people get hurt. And tbh Im all for bringing the cane and other measures into schools but then you get the pussies who don't want it then act all 10 men.

There's terror on the streets of London. Lets send the super dooper army in to stop it. Oh wait, they can't even do that in a third world country let alone the UK.

forgot the taliban are people with pitch forks etc, they do have the same number of weapon systems as us and are actually trained to a high degree. it wouldnt of been a third world country if the russians had not of invaded have you seen films and pictures before they came it was a up and coming country full of promise. Pluse wouldnt this country look like a hell hole if it had been at war for over 40 years thats all a lot of people know in afghanistan now war!

Have a little respect for the guys doing the work out there. We do a good job under dificult circumstances and conditions.

I realise I'm putting myself at risk by admitting my part in the problems just starting up in Leeds but here goes....

So far today in the office I have taken someone's apple, a box of 'heroes' and some flapjack. All have been replaced with a polite post-it note explaining that I have looted them.

I blame the teachers.

Panic on the streets of London
Panic on the streets of Birmingham
I wonder to myself
Could life ever be sane again ?
The Leeds side-streets that you slip down
I wonder to myself
Hopes may rise on the Grasmere
But Honey Pie, you're not safe here
So you run down
To the safety of the town
But there's Panic on the streets of Carlisle
Dublin, Dundee, Humberside
I wonder to myself

Morrissey is Nostradamus.
I think Hull, Carlisle and all better look out....

true, ive seen the afghans in tanks, copters n jets. Im sure youll get ur respect from others

Oy! That BMW dealership is just down the road from my house, don't you dare tell me I live as near to L***s as you can get....some things are actionable you know!!



It is close to Pudsey mind, and Pudsey is in the L***s council area but it's oooh, three or four miles from the place itself.

OMG sorry...I should have realised!







How can I live with the shame?

I fear I must now do the only honourable thing. I might be gone some time...

Bulls4Champs2010 doesn't understand that Tanks, Copters and Jets don't always win. You have to evaluate the situation and assess wether they can be used. Don't be a prick by thinking you know stuff when you clearly don't. End of the day our soldiers are human and can be killed easily. They are not invincible and tbh majority of Al-Queda have been to Oxford, Cambidge etc so we arn't up against farmers or civilians, in fact this is probably the most dangerous enemy since the Nazi's. Show some respect.

Majority of al qaeda have been to oxford and cambridge? lol. okey cokey. what planet are you on?

Bin Laden and at least 3 of his 'leaders' went to Oxford. Who knows how many other of the leaders went to Cambridge. I was referring to the Heirarchy

so u dont actualy know who or how many of the al qaeda heirachy were educated in brit uni system?

Considering that neither of us know how many people are in the al qaeda heirachy then no obviously not.

At the risk of being suckered into your wind deliberate comments intended to provoke a reaction, do you mind me asking what your profession is?