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| Quote ="Nothus"The rfl were given our budgets and forecasts, no? So I would say that there probably is a model in place.
Or are you expecting it to be made public? Because that's obviously not going to happen.'"
Well I personally am not going to just accept bland assurances that everything will be ok. Not anymore. So they can either demonstrate to me and everyone else, who are understandably jaded and cynical, that things are going to be different, or I'm not emotionally investing.
My point however was that Agents have a duty of care, and irrespective of the budget made available NOW, wouldn't they wish to assure themselves that the club won't go bust again and leave the players in the lurch.
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| Quote ="Pumpetypump"Well I personally am not going to just accept bland assurances that everything will be ok. Not anymore. So they can either demonstrate to me and everyone else, who are understandably jaded and cynical, that things are going to be different, or I'm not emotionally investing.
My point however was that Agents have a duty of care, and irrespective of the budget made available NOW, wouldn't they wish to assure themselves that the club won't go bust again and leave the players in the lurch.'"
Demonstrate how?
And we're talking about jobs and employers here, it's the same as anywhere else. Did you ask your employer for assurances that they wouldn't go bust before you accepted their job offer? Of course you didn't. If anything you'd probably look at their track record and decide whether or not to take the risk. The players who have agreed to sign with us will have done the same thing.
Nobody can make those kind of assurances.
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| Quote ="Nothus"Demonstrate how?
And we're talking about jobs and employers here, it's the same as anywhere else. Did you ask your employer for assurances that they wouldn't go bust before you accepted their job offer? Of course you didn't. If anything you'd probably look at their track record and decide whether or not to take the risk. The players who have agreed to sign with us will have done the same thing.
Nobody can make those kind of assurances.'"
Well if my employer went bust we’d all be effed as I work for the Government.
It can’t be business as usual being a fan anymore, something has to change. I’m not going to take anymore bland and vague assurances that somehow this time is going to be different. There is a myriad of different ways they can demonstrate a shift away from the relentless cycle of bust, stability, bust, stability, bust. I don’t wish to see specific financial projections, but it’s not beyond the whit of man to give some comfort that they have identified the causes of our relentless financial losses, and to provide an indication that they have a credible plan to address it. Essentially, I want to know what’s different this time and so far I’ve seen nothing at all to provide comfort.
We seemingly agree that a responsible agent would want to satisfy themselves, in whatever way they, can that their clients best interests and financial security are served by going to Bradford.
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| Quote ="Pumpetypump"Well if my employer went bust we’d all be effed as I work for the Government.
It can’t be business as usual being a fan anymore, something has to change. I’m not going to take anymore bland and vague assurances that somehow this time is going to be different. There is a myriad of different ways they can demonstrate a shift away from the relentless cycle of bust, stability, bust, stability, bust. I don’t wish to see specific financial projections, but it’s not beyond the whit of man to give some comfort that they have identified the causes of our relentless financial losses, and to provide an indication that they have a credible plan to address it. Essentially, I want to know what’s different this time and so far I’ve seen nothing at all to provide comfort.
We seemingly agree that a responsible agent would want to satisfy themselves, in whatever way they, can that their clients best interests and financial security are served by going to Bradford.'"
I think the closest thing you're going to get are the question & answer features the new owners have been regularly putting up. I can't see them being any more forthcoming than that.
For many that's probably not enough and is reflected in our dire season ticket sales. It takes time to build trust, there's no other way.
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| Quote ="Nothus"I think the closest thing you're going to get are the question & answer features the new owners have been regularly putting up. I can't see them being any more forthcoming than that.
For many that's probably not enough and is reflected in our dire season ticket sales. It takes time to build trust, there's no other way.'"
So what is enough then? Are we generally happy with the last 2 months?
Negatives - we sold a bunch of home grown/exciting players
we've moved from Odsal
Wood is involved.
Positives - we've not gone into admin - which was helped by 1, if not 2 of the negatives.
we seem to be paying invoices and staff as we go along, whilst coming to terms with and/or paying previous liabilities
Any playing squad overseen by John Kear will have certain standards. JK seems to be happy. We've appointed a couple more backroom staff. Players are saying all the right things about preseason.
All the things other teams are doing this time of year, we're doing.
Renovated shop at Odsal - selling merchandise. Maybe some questions about quality, but again, driven by past issues.
4 friendlies set up, then Hunslet said they had been promised one and JK & the board decided it had to be fulfilled as we had made a commitment.
Social media is much, much better.
We've announced a whole bunch of sponsors and the shirt design they will be on looks great.
Season ticket target was low, but has been met.
Perez is a good operator, the negative being he's only a short term fix.
Anything else?
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| My cynicism certainly isn't rooted in the involvement of Perez or Sawyer. It's the fact that they are temporary and we haven't a clue what or who comes next.
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| Quote ="Pumpetypump"My cynicism certainly isn't rooted in the involvement of Perez or Sawyer. It's the fact that they are temporary and we haven't a clue what or who comes next.'"
Thats the massive thing for e. All our recent owners have been temporary although we didnt know it at the time. This time we know they are temporary for an even shorter period whith not even an indication of what comes next.
It genuinely seems the people involved (barring Perez from the outside but who knows) are still in it for what they can get and wont commit to sustaining the club going forward. A lot of fans must see it this way. I certainly do. It pains me that my 6 year old is saying he is looking forward to going to Bulls again when it starts. Cant bring myself to dampen his spirits at this present moment. Bit of time between now and then so time for something to make me change my own mind yet, albeit until it happens ive no idea what that could be
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| So, when Perez leaves, if we have appointed a credible chief exec who will be there long term - that will be enough?
The shareholding has been splintered, like it was 10yrs ago with (approx) Caiseley 35%, Hood 25%, Agar 10% + others.
Instead we have Wood, Sawyer, Fogerty + various Wood family members. If the shareholders stay quiet, in the background and let the new Chief exec get on, that would be enough?
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| Obviously, we'd need to give them the obligatory 10 games....
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| Quote ="Highlander"So, when Perez leaves, if we have appointed a credible chief exec who will be there long term - that will be enough?
The shareholding has been splintered, like it was 10yrs ago with (approx) Caiseley 35%, Hood 25%, Agar 10% + others.
Instead we have Wood, Sawyer, Fogerty + various Wood family members. If the shareholders stay quiet, in the background and let the new Chief exec get on, that would be enough?'"
Not enough for me. That whole opaque thing really is so 2019. Transparency is required.
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| Transparency as in exact shareholdings? Looks like there's never going to be an inquiry so little other option. First set of accounts under new ownership?
I'm sort of hopeful that if they rack up weeks & months without a financial disaster and the team is acquitting itself fine and the u18's do ok in their league, then people will slowly drift back.
If we're waiting for Wood to leave, that could be an issue.
If we're waiting for us to play back in Bradford, also an issue.
Would a detailed council backed & rfl signed off development in Bradford help get people back?
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| I do enjoy watching the academy play at Dudley Hill. If you're resisting the idea of getting a season ticket, that's an option. Still Bulls, bit more innocent times.... was it £3 last year? Midweek though.
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| The problem we have is that Sawyer has stated he has no ulterior motives and some people don’t believe that. If this is the truth then he is going to struggle to convince people that he is genuinely here to help as he has nothing to back this up other than in 12m time he might be able to turn round and say there’s the evidence, no disasters and run well. Until this point we are caught in no mans land, if he’s genuine then he can only tell people but they choose not to believe. And before I get shot down I can see why people are hesitant just based on recent history but if he’s here to help there is nothing else he can offer up is there in terms of an explanation
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| Quote ="Pumpetypump"My cynicism certainly isn't rooted in the involvement of Perez or Sawyer. It's the fact that they are temporary and we haven't a clue what or who comes next.'"
That is the real "worry", isn't it. It all seems (is?) so sticking plaster. I put 'worry' in quotes as, in all truth, I worry less and less due to my caring less and less. The days of giving the club £500, and being happy to do so have long disappeared, I'm afraid. I'm not saying the relationship has become totally transactional, as in I demand we win every game or I'm not going again, it's just that whilst I hope they win I won't be bothered as much as I might previously have been.
One difference, seeing as you mentioned the differences between the previous incarnations, is the size of the squad. At the time of typing we seem a fraction short imo, whereas in previous, supposedly austerity driven seasons, our squads have been bloated, beyond belief, with some players never even pulling a shirt on. Maybe the new broom is really going to be a new broom?
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| My melodramatic analogy of watching Bradford is that they are like a drug addicted relative. You support them time and time again as they get clean and promise to stay that way. Eventually after hearing it that many times you think to yourself "You're just going to buy crack again aren't you". I'm not enjoying my transition to cynical git at all. Not really my style but here we are.
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| I'm surprised at how I'm growing to like this Bulls. Got ST's, family will be there. A key factor for me is that I haven't heard from Wood at all for quite a few weeks now. Which is as it should be. I'm enjoying the Perez weekly T&A column, I'm liking the fact we have a whole bunch of sponsors, some new. I like the fact we're increasing staffing for academy which, although it's done well over the years, always felt we were doing it on a staffing shoestring.
Money seems to be looked after now. And respected. And used in areas where it is most needed.
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| Quote ="Pumpetypump"My melodramatic analogy of watching Bradford is that they are like a drug addicted relative. You support them time and time again as they get clean and promise to stay that way. Eventually after hearing it that many times you think to yourself "You're just going to buy crack again aren't you". I'm not enjoying my transition to cynical git at all. Not really my style but here we are.'"
Fantastic analogy. 100% on the money.
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| Reported in the T&A that Connor Farrell will be missing until at least April. I think we already knew that, but now confirmed. Also that Evan Hodgson is out with knee trouble
So our second row options at the moment are the guy on loan from Hull KR and ...ummm....
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| Quote ="Betsy Bulls"The problem we have is that Sawyer has stated he has no ulterior motives and some people don’t believe that. If this is the truth then he is going to struggle to convince people that he is genuinely here to help as he has nothing to back this up other than in 12m time he might be able to turn round and say there’s the evidence, no disasters and run well. Until this point we are caught in no mans land, if he’s genuine then he can only tell people but they choose not to believe. And before I get shot down I can see why people are hesitant just based on recent history but if he’s here to help there is nothing else he can offer up is there in terms of an explanation'"
My problem is that wood is wood and sawyer may say he has no ulterior motive but not a chance this isn’t related to his desire to set up an Ottawa club. Back scratching all over the place and our club is the smokescreen as usual.
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| Sawyer wants to set up Ottawa?
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| Quote ="Pumpetypump"Not enough for me. That whole opaque thing really is so 2019. Transparency is required.'"
Having Sedulo as their accountants is a clear statement of transparency. No they are not going to open the books to anybody that wants a nosey, but appointing Sedulo provides an independent and expert oversight of the financial management of the business. I doubt we have received any money for the shirt sponsorship, rather services that could actually be far more important than cash. Chalmers seems to have seat of pantsed it, The large number of interests make it important that an independent source is reporting regularly on the cash flow and trading.
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| Quote ="martinwildbull"Having Sedulo as their accountants is a clear statement of transparency. No they are not going to open the books to anybody that wants a nosey, but appointing Sedulo provides an independent and expert oversight of the financial management of the business. I doubt we have received any money for the shirt sponsorship, rather services that could actually be far more important than cash. Chalmers seems to have seat of pantsed it, The large number of interests make it important that an independent source is reporting regularly on the cash flow and trading.'"
That's fine so far as it goes, just as long as any caveats reported are acted upon. Ultimately though, those reports will be going back to the club, and it is at their discretion whether, or not, any recommendations are followed through by the directors. Unless, of course the RFL have a mole..
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| Quote ="Betsy Bulls"Sawyer wants to set up Ottawa?'"
Think he means Perez. Isn't he helping out so that RFL will ratify Hemel's license relocation to Ottowa?
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| Squad for Castleford game
I'm guessing
Pickersgill
Foggin-Johnson
Oakes
Evans
Johnson
Milnes
Lilley
Crossley
Doyle
Kirk
Rooks
Gallagher
Hallas
England
Barlow
Foster
Brown
Scurr
Shackleton
Smith
Not a bad looking first 13 and a few to add later (Nzgoungou, Farrell, Hodgson, Flanagan). Still looks light on depth though - especially second row and half back.
A few injuries and we are really getting down to the kids aren't we?
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| Nah - nothing to worry about, we [inever [/iget injuries do we...
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