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| I would have said 4 back before today but now we won that one, I think 2 back.
Conspiracy theorist me? Never!
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| Quote ="debaser"I would have said 4 back before today but now we won that one, I think 2 back.
Conspiracy theorist me? Never!'"
You may well be right, but, TBH, I would take it. Anything is better than nothing and to pull back 4 points on Wakey in a few days would be a massive boost.
Our side, when fully fit, is a DECENT side, and I believe that we are capable, with a bit of luck on the injury front, of getting a few more wins. Look at Hull KR today FFS, they ain't much cop, and neither are their nearest and dearest in B&W. Salford are too much of a collection of individuals and they must be seen as a "game to target".
Ferguson, Blythe and Fakir back are massive boosts. Get Kearney back and Gaskell back to the halfs and we should pick up a few more points.
That said, no doubt we will lose another five to injury again this week.
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| Quote ="Adeybull"So? Precise date of logging at CH is not relevant in this case. It was anyway reported in the media on 12 November that he had left the company. Not that the precise date makes any difference whatsoever in this case.
No. He stated "...there was no [udebt[/u to HMRC..." not "...no monies owing...". The distinction could be important, since most people would take "debt" in this case to mean something overdue for payment. The October PAYE was not due for payment until 22/11. But, in any case, I suspect HMRC would have moved well before mid-January if the October PAYE remained unpaid.
Quote Would they?'"
I already stated the wording he used left scope for being disingenuous. I doubt he would have told an outright lie though, given the very public nature of his letter. Even HE would not be that dumb.
Quote His wording was clear. You seem to be confusing debt with due dates. A debt is incurred as soon as any transaction generating any liability takes place.'"
Again, no shìt, Sherlock...
Not at all. As every other reader apart from yourself will clearly see from what I said. You stated, unequivocally that "...It would be extremely difficult for any business to accrue debts of £170k to HMRC between the date Mr Whitcut says he left the company, i.e November 2013 and the date the winding up order (sic) was issued. ". Leaving aside your clear lack of understanding about insolvency processes and terminology, I demonstrated how if would be perfectly possible. And that I was, and am, happy to provide the maths to support that.
My rebuttal of your statement did not require me to prove what the balances oustanding were, and when they arose. It merely required me to demonstrate that YOUR statement was wrong. Which I did.
Quote You haven't demonstrated that. If there were no debts when Whitcut left, how & when did both those amounts accrue?'"
Well what an amazing thing! I qualified in 1979, but I never knew that till now! Thank you SO much for enlightening me!
See my earlier comments re the October payroll PAYE, and the potential for disingenuous use of semantics.
Really? In which case, pray enlighten us as to how those players will have been employed or engaged by the club then? And how PAYE will have been avoided?
In framing your answer, you might just want to bear in mind that I have previously stated I saw detailed club financials as recently as late last summer. So, it might not be unreasonable to assume that I know the gist of the facts. Being bound still by a NDA, until OKB is finally liquidated, anyway, I obviously cannot state those facts on here.
Quote NDA? In what capacity did you see these financials?'"
I have already state85kd that two payrolls might make the £170k you have been quoting. Three surely would. That was based quite simply on a total gross payroll of say £2m (probably too low), deductions from employees averaging say 30%, and employers' NIC (above the LEL) of 13.8%. I never suggested £85k/month PAYE - you did.
Quote £170k /2 is £85k How would three surely?'"
Further to my previous point, I was careful to use assumptions that a reasonable financial person might well use, as a starting point. Maybe other financial people on here would care to comment on the assumptions? If I had a clearer idea of the likely actual monthly numbers, based on what I had actually seen as above, I would obviously not be in a position to use that information for the reason stated. Instead, I would need to do a simple calculation from first principles. As I did.
Quote So you've seen figures but have no idea of numbers?'"
Oh but I have.
I demonstrated that your statement was rubbish. It was not necessary to state the actual numbers to be able to do that. Merely to demonstrate how such numbers could easily arise.
But now, we come to the crunch, where you get to look even more stupid again.
1 - The HMRC petition for winding up, presented on 16/1/14 (I am looking at it now) does not state the amount they were claiming. How do you know what that amount was? And what it comprised?
2 - The statement of Affairs, dated as of 31/1/14, DOES state the amounts due to HMRC. Again, I am looking at it now. In fact, it states TWO amounts - and, in doing so, probably indicates that the administrator, too, needs a bit of a refresher course. The values are:
"Inland Revenue" - £77,221.16
"HM Customs & Excise" - £168,227.48
The descriptions are curious, since both bodies ceased to exist some time ago when they were merged to become HMRC.
But, I suspect most accountants reading this would take the first item as likely being PAYE, and the second item likely being VAT? As well as suggesting MR Wilson needs to get some tax CPD in quite sharpish...
VAT? Oh yes, I noted that right at the end of my earlier post. As a bit of a "sleeper". But you fell into the trap I set, of asuming all the amounts owing to HMRC were for PAYE, even though the hint was there. Oh dearie me.
Quote I made no assumption. I merely pointed out one element of what the amount could be made up of. You clearly don't know, but accept Whitcut was being honest when he said there was no debt, when there clearly was.'"
Bad fail. Again.
Quote Yes, you must do better'"
'"
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| Quote ="Ferocious Aardvark"Asked what, ffs?
Quote Check back & back up your words'"
Could you perhaps link to the public record you checked of all civil claims lodged, so we can check this one doesn't appear? No, that's right, because there isn't one. So your implication that some such national list exists is just pure bull, as per.
Quote You made the claim that legal action is being taken. Yet you can't tell me when forms were lodged, which solicitor is handling it and at which court the papers were lodged, or when the hearing is scheduled for?. Surely you would know all these facts?'"
Poor love. There's only you, though. People on here understand both that I don't report bull nor do I rat on my sources. Whether you personally believe any of it is irrelevant to me. The only reason I respond when you post lies is NOT to convince a moron like you, but simply to point out that your are a liar, in case anyone doesn't know, and that you are stating things as fact when I can guarantee you are making it up.
Quote Rat on your sources? Feel free to point out any lies on my part. What am I making up?'"
'"
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| Quote ="Ferocious Aardvark"League Dweeb is just a trolling idiot, who wanted to come on here and make out he was some sort of in-th-know guy with access to privileged information. Sadly when shown up for persistently bullting, he prefers to try to brazen it out, and probably actually believes that there are people left who can't see through him.
My best guess is that he is probably a goldfish, judged by (a) how long it takes him to forget something he's been told and (b) how he keeps going round and round in the same circles.'"
Any evidence of this mythical £1m?
Any evidence of this mythical legal case?
Stick a fork in yourself, you're done.
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| Well if we get our 6 points back, Wakefield will need a new sewage works with all their fans ting themselves, and talking e on here.
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| Quote ="LeagueDweeb"Any evidence of this mythical £1m?
Any evidence of this mythical legal case?
Stick a fork in yourself, you're done.'"
Any evidence off any of your claims? I'd suggest your the one who's done. Your just too thick to admit it.
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| Hopefully they give us six points back. This calling Carter's bluff. Fingers crosse he's a man of his word and not just the gob e i think he is and we dont have to listen to him going on and on kissing his own on radio leeds again.
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| Quote ="Maccbull_BigBullyBooaza"Hopefully they give us six points back. This calling Carter's bluff. Fingers crosse he's a man of his word and not just the gob poop i think he is and we dont have to listen to him going on and on kissing his own booty on radio leeds again.'"
What did he say? The usual?
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| Quote ="LeagueDweeb"Any evidence of this £1m?'"
Well, yes. If you're a creditor, you will have been already given the evidence. If you're not a creditor, you can ask Mr Wilson and see what he says. Or you can wait for his final report to be published. I don't know of any other options for you.
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| Quote ="LeagueDweeb"Check back & back up your words'"
Not playing your stupid game. Anything specific you want to discuss, feel free.
Quote ="LeagueDweeb"You made the claim that legal action is being taken. '"
No. I stated, unequivocally, that legal action is being taken. It is not a claim, it is advising the forum of the factual situation.
Quote ="LeagueDweeb"Yet you can't tell me when forms were lodged, which solicitor is handling it and at which court the papers were lodged, '"
No, I can tell you, but choose not to. You are informed. Whetehr you personally choose to intake the information, or not, is up to you. What is stupid is for you to keep claiming the contrary, when you do not actually know anything.
Quote ="LeagueDweeb" or when the hearing is scheduled for?. '"
No hearing yet scheduled.
Quote ="LeagueDweeb"Surely you would know all these facts? '"
I have told you the facts. You choose to dispute them, even though you don't know the facts. That is as previously remarked a strange case of repeatedly sing in the wind.
As I have individually called you a liar on specific points, and you have simply ignored it, I suggest you go back and requote the individual accusations of each of your lies, and refute them, if you really want to look more foolish. Your tactic of deliberately ignoring specific statements and then some time later disingenuously asking "what statements" is frankly pathetic.
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| How long before we know the outcome of this weeks hearing ?
Will we have to wait further or will it be announced straight after ?
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| Quote ="jammle"How long before we know the outcome of this weeks hearing ?
Will we have to wait further or will it be announced straight after ?'"
I doubt there will be an official announcement on Wednesday, my guess would be Thursday or Friday with lots of our resident in the know experts claiming to know the result Wednesday evening.
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| Quote ="Duckman":23uilwcnI doubt there will be an official announcement on Wednesday, my guess would be Thursday or Friday with lots of our resident in the know experts claiming to know the result Wednesday evening.'" :23uilwcn
Well, they'll all know what the result [i:23uilwcnought[/i that is for sure! 'Course, it would get a bit boring if it were otherwise.
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| do any of the resident in the know experts know if the Independent Panel have asked for an expert to provide evidence to help them with their decision as allowed by the appeal process. If so, there should not be much delay. quote from rfl website 14th April:
[iThe panel has the discretionary power to instruct an independent firm of accountants or alternative expert to provide evidence to assist them in deciding whether or not the insolvency event arose as a result of force majeure.[/i
If they haven't, it could take a bit more time to appoint and consider the evidence of such an expert. So you would have thought they have, but then nothing about this is straightforward.
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| The decision is supposed to be announced the week after the hearing,wonder if that date will get pushed back to August
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| Nothing would surprise me, not even if it were pushed back until after our game away at London. That's our final match, to save anyone looking it up.
Now that [icould[/i be a political hot potato..
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| Surely a more equitable solution to the requirement to reduce the number of teams in SL rather than the totally arbitrary method based on league position would be to relegate all teams beginning with W. Some unfortunate collateral damage - sorry Wolves fans but I am sure you will bounce straight back - and it will greatly help sell the game to Japanese TV
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| The RFL are appointing independent announcers to make the announcement.
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| if we had not had the 6 points deducted at the start of the season we would still be in 13th place, would we still have the coaching staff we have now, would Sammut, Scruts, and Cavel have left. food for thought
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| Quote ="tigertot"The RFL are appointing independent announcers to make the announcement.'"
But first, they will use their discretionary power to instruct an independent firm of experts to provide evidence to assist them in deciding who are to be the independent announcers.
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| Quote ="zapperbull"if we had not had the 6 points deducted at the start of the season we would still be in 13th place, would we still have the coaching staff we have now, would Sammut, Scruts, and Cavel have left.
food for thought'"
If we still had Sammut, Scrutes and Carvel, we would more wins than we have currently posted
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| Quote ="zapperbull"if we had not had the 6 points deducted at the start of the season we would still be in 13th place, '"
You can't say that. We have no idea what would have happened has BB2014 not felt bounced out. Who knows who would have left? Impossible to say, but as dayvez says had we kept something like a pack I'm sure we'd have had more points in the bag.
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| Quote ="Ferocious Aardvark"But first, they will use their discretionary power to instruct an independent firm of experts to provide evidence to assist them in deciding who are to be the independent announcers.'"
I was in Leeds station Wetherspoons on Friday, as were Big Nige & Ralph. Unlike me they were on a table of lovely ladies. It's strange what comes into your head after 6 pints of Acorn's splendid [iSur Votre Velo[/i. I went home instead & slept through Wire v Rhinos.
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| Quote ="Ferocious Aardvark"Not playing your stupid game. Anything specific you want to discuss, feel free.
No. I stated, unequivocally, that legal action is being taken. It is not a claim, it is advising the forum of the factual situation.
Quote Who is taking the legal action, and against whom?'"
No, I can tell you, but choose not to. You are informed. Whetehr you personally choose to intake the information, or not, is up to you. What is stupid is for you to keep claiming the contrary, when you do not actually know anything.
No hearing yet scheduled.
Quote You cannot tell anyone, because there is no action being taken. You are unable to support your false claim.'"
I have told you the facts. You choose to dispute them, even though you don't know the facts. That is as previously remarked a strange case of repeatedly sing in the wind.
Quote Just because you repeat something does not make it fact'"
As I have individually called you a liar on specific points, and you have simply ignored it, I suggest you go back and requote the individual accusations of each of your lies, and refute them, if you really want to look more foolish. Your tactic of deliberately ignoring specific statements and then some time later disingenuously asking "what statements" is frankly pathetic.
Quote Of course I will ignore your childish name calling. Proof of £1m?. Proof of legal action? 'None forthcoming' as Stevo may say.'"
'"
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