Indeed.

It was only 45 minutes away....

come say that to my face terry ill teach you a lesson about bad mouthing our boys

bye

bye? why? im tryin to stick up for our boys putting there live on the line and you tell me to go away

you really arent a bulldog

Well yes and no, historically when ordinary people sought to have their voices heard it was the military that put them down, from the Peterloo massacre in Manchester to the Chartist uprising in Newport, which has close links to the Bradford Chartist movement - i.e. a movement for ordinary people to have the vote. We also have a long history of sending troops to colonise other lands, subjugate their people and steal their resources, as well as a history of fighting fascism and intervening to protect minorities from being exterminated. So it's not quite as simple as it sounds.

Personally I applauded, they're brave people and I'm glad they're back with their families, I just hope that one day their bravery earns them the politicians they deserve, rather than a professional class of idiots who would never go and fight themselves, or send their own family members.

they are much better than pen pushers/students like you tony who give nothing to thefamilies of our country

you are not a brit

Agree totally with that sentiment. However, don't really see that the history in your first few sentences - true enough though it may be - is pertinent to the issue under discussion?

even when we lost in vietnam the soldiers were still heroes its about doin the stuff the average person would be too scared to, for your country

Simply pointing out that the narrative of the armed forces being our guarantee of freedom is historically contingent and dependent upon whether or not our 'freedoms' coincided with the wishes of the elite at the time. It was a point made directly in response to the quote I cited.

I've already stated what my position is on clapping the military at Odsal today.

Apart from the fact we weren't in Vietnam, so you'd have to search out some French of U.S. veterans to clap. I'm presuming you're either very young, a 'joke' poster, or the Punisher back in another guise?

No it isnt, I'm allowed my opinion anyway. The service folk that are sent kill in foreign lands today have no bearing whatsoever with how my opinion is recieved. I know what benefits me, and it's not men out in Iraq or Afghanistan.

Do you want some praise for your service or something? Because there's plenty willing to offer you it. But go away and shine your medals before you start lecturing me, I couldn't care for the slightest in your service.

I've pondered whether I would clap since I read the first post yesterday. I would probably have moved my hands together in a confused way that made no noise, in a show of sympathy rather than admiration. I have friends & family who have been to Iraq, now my B-in-L, who is the only soldier I have talked to who has stated he joined up to make a positive difference, is due to go to Afghanistan. I asked him 18 months ago why we are in Afghanistan, he couldn't tell me clearly; as he is a major you would think he would know. I asked him again a few weeks ago during another drunken debate, he was a bit more clear - it is now the focal point for global terrorism A movement I would argue we are largely responsible for focussing. We are also complicit in the deaths & abuse of thousands of innocents in those countries. As we have been throughout history. So when presented with a bunch of brave young men I don't think of them as heroes, I have confused thoughts of naiive political pawns who are being used to justify an illegal & immoral war. I love & admire my B-in-L more than nearly anyone I know, I don't do heroes, but I wish I had the same degree of commitment & courage as this outstanding young man who, each time I meet him, I fear it might be the last.

I've never have or will seek praise for my service and whilst you are very welcome to your opinion again ranting about our forces been in iraq and afghanistan as having no benefit is mis-informed.
I'm not bothered if you care or not what bothers me is alck of respect from someone who clearly doesn't know the full facts of what the armed forces bring.

I know this much, they bring me nothing. When they do, they will be praised and applauded. Until then they can keep seeking the praise from you and many others. Ive nothing to applaud them for.

The Iraqis didn't have nuclear weapons, so it would have been extremely unlikely.

And the army would have stopped a nuke exactly how?

We assisted in creating this monster we now have to control. What benefits do we get from being there? Access to oil & drugs?

If it was that straight forward and transparent you'd have a point,but that isn't the case.
Check what's been going on there before 9/11 and look deeper at how these countries were run and who/what they supported!!

Oh I see. Manipulating the democratic process, supporting unelected dictatorships & complicit in the use of torture & oppression. We can't stand for that. Never have, never will.

I for one fully respect the armed forces and what they stand for and would have applauded had i been at the game. I wont however treat them all as heroes, some have carried out truely Heroic acts above and beyond what is expected when they carry out their DUTY and deserve the tag "hero" others have carried out the job they signed up for and as i said they deserve respect for doing the job, lets not forget they dont choose where they are stationed or the enemy they fight they carry out their duty for Queen and country (dont get me started on the monarchy).

They do choose to join the army though don't they. What do they expect to be doing? It's not tiddly winks is it?

I would like to suggest there being a WMD under or in McNamara's seat, please can we take it away for investigation (whilst he's sat on it) and let it be replaced whilst it is interogated, waterboarded and locked up without trial for the next 2 years, unfornuntely Steve would have to stay with it as he is the owner and person responsible for it's actions.

My evidence is the destruction of a world championship club to relegation fodder in 3 years, he has brought terror, fear and worse than all apathy to our once great clubs supporters.

We can replace Steve's chair with a more experienced chair with someone (anyone) else sat on it.

I would suggest should our great nations army...sorry all our armed forces perform this task (nothing else seems to budge him) then an even greater majority would clap them...perhaps even Terry







Being serious, something different and i kinda enjoyed it. Lets stop the bickering, people have different views and opinions and if we didn't it wouldn't be interesting...now moving onto people without children parking in mother and baby spaces...............

And people parking in cycle lanes.

And people in cars who drive all the way to the front of a queue and then indicate to be let in....grrrr

I would say that the applause for theses lads was as warm and prolonged as I think I have ever heard at odsal, it went on throughout the whole presentations and a lot of people in the stand made it a standing ovation. I am very proud that the overwhelming majority of fans (both clubs) feel that way.

I despise those who feel big about not clapping, especially those who only have self-interest at heart - "what have they done for ME ME ME"icon_wink.gif I am grateful to live in a country where even the mealy-mouthed, selfish, waste-of space oafs such as these have the right of free speech, ironically preserved for them by the blood and sacrifice of millions of former service men and women.

Yeah, that about sums it up for me.

Yep, everyone in the Coral stand was applauding all the way through too, including the two sides that had played in the curtain raiser.

I was there with a few people who had never been to Odsal before (and a few who had never been to an RL game) and they all commented what a very respectful and nice reception the half time ceremony got.


It was also quite strange to note that they all thought the pre-match entertainment was excellent. Perhaps we only criticise it because we see a similar thing every week and remember when it was a bit more? Those new to the game were quite impressed.