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| Quote ="BD20"Today's T&A piece pulls few punches. Creditors and staff can't be pleased with the fact Green flew back on holiday as that send the wrong message out from the club. There maybe little he can do staying round the club at the moment with frozen bank accounts but at least it would send out the right message that they are trying to sort out the situation.'"
Gotta be honest, I tend to agree. At first when I saw he'd flown back, my thought was "Well he came back to try and sort something, if there's nothing more he can do, why shouldn't he go back and finish his holiday?". But then I thought of it from my own POV, and if I hadn't been paid and was told by the CEO of the company I work for that his accounts had been frozen, I don't think I'd be overly impressed with him then jumping on a plane to go on holiday.
Like you said, it's all about the message it sends really. While he's probably not actually doing anything wrong, it must rub the staff and players up the wrong way. It would anyone else in their situation.
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| If it's a case of Green's accounts being frozen, then that at least is an explanation as to why the staff have not been paid ie the bank refusing to release funds. It does however raise other questions regarding just WHY the bank took those steps as I can't believe it's down to simple error.
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| Quote ="roofaldo2"If it's a case of Green's accounts being frozen, then that at least is an explanation as to why the staff have not been paid ie the bank refusing to release funds. It does however raise other questions regarding just WHY the bank took those steps as I can't believe it's down to simple error.'"
I would suggest it's less likely to be the bank that has frozen his accounts on their decision and more likely to be at the request of HMRC.
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| Quote ="roofaldo2"If it's a case of Green's accounts being frozen, then that at least is an explanation as to why the staff have not been paid ie the bank refusing to release funds. It does however raise other questions regarding just WHY the bank took those steps as I can't believe it's down to simple error.'"
Why does it? Why is Marc having to use his own money to pay the wages? That in itself is enough to set alarm bells ringing for me.
The club wages should be paid by the club, using club funds, from the club bank account. Marc's personal affairs should never even come into it.
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| Did anyone raise the question of Joynt's Voluntary tackle? I still don't feel we have had a satisfactory answer under any of the previous regimes.
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| The reason the bank freezes accounts is because all transactions between presentation and hearing of a WUP are voidable in the event that the WUP succeeds, and the bank can be liable to pay back any amounts paid out of the account in that period.
So unfortunately the club's and Marc Green's accounts are isolated until the September hearing.
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| Quote ="Nothus"Why does it? Why is Marc having to use his own money to pay the wages? That in itself is enough to set alarm bells ringing for me.
The club wages should be paid by the club, using club funds, from the club bank account. Marc's personal affairs should never even come into it.'"
Whoever comes up with the monthly wage bill must now hand that money to the RFL for them to pay the players and staff.
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| Quote ="Nothus"Let's just wait and see what Friday brings. We might not need 'saving' at all.'"
I hope this this is the case.
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| Quote ="MicktheGled"The reason the bank freezes accounts is because all transactions between presentation and hearing of a WUP are voidable in the event that the WUP succeeds, and the bank can be liable to pay back any amounts paid out of the account in that period.
So unfortunately the club's and Marc Green's accounts are isolated until the September hearing.'"
But the club just came off the back of another WUP a few month ago and it's accounts weren't frozen.
The difference here appears to be the £4.5m that is owed to HMRC via companies in Liquidation under common ownership.
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| Green going back on his hols does remind me a little of The Office when David Brent tells everyone they’re being made redundant but good news is that he’s been promoted.
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| Quote ="BD20"But the club just came off the back of another WUP a few month ago and it's accounts weren't frozen.
The difference here appears to be the £4.5m that is owed to HMRC via companies in Liquidation under common ownership.'"
I need to be careful how I word this but when I spoke to companies house about linking companies they explained it like this to me...
EG: if person A has been involved in company A and company A then goes into liquidation owing HMRC significant figures but person A also has a company B that has been late paying HMRC.
The only link between the two companies is that the Bradford Bulls use Marc Green's safe guard company to provide security on match days.
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| So because Marc's accounts are frozen then the only way the wages will be payed is by borrowing it from somebody else. If the hearing isn't until September then we'll have another pay day before then. I don't see this ending well at all.
Marc strikes me as a very proud man but I hope he swallows his pride and does what's best for him, his family and the club. If there's an opportunity to sell the club then he needs to take it as there's no way that his situation will get anything other than worse by carrying on.
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| It seems pretty unfair that the Bulls (a separate entity) are suffering because of the "failings" of an unrelated company.
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| Quote ="MicktheGled"I need to be careful how I word this but when I spoke to companies house about linking companies they explained it like this to me...
EG: if person A has been involved in company A and company A then goes into liquidation owing HMRC significant figures but person A also has a company B that has been late paying HMRC.
The only link between the two companies is that the Bradford Bulls use Marc Green's safe guard company to provide security on match days.'"
Surely the link between the two companies is Marc Green?
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| To me also with this mystery "investor" is it someone willing to invest or someone wanting to buy the club? If the former why havent they already had a word with green and come to an arrangement? Seems to me its another one who wants to ride in like a white knight and use the club for personal gratification as previous people have done
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| Quote ="MicktheGled"I need to be careful how I word this but when I spoke to companies house about linking companies they explained it like this to me...
EG: if person A has been involved in company A and company A then goes into liquidation owing HMRC significant figures but person A also has a company B that has been late paying HMRC.
The only link between the two companies is that the Bradford Bulls use Marc Green's safe guard company to provide security on match days.'"
The companies in Liquidation and the Bradford Bulls have identical shareholdings as can be confirmed freely on the public records held at companies house. 55% to Marc and 45% to his wife.
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| Quote ="MicktheGled"The only link between the two companies is that the Bradford Bulls use Marc Green's safe guard company to provide security on match days.'"
The link is that Marc is a shareholder and director of both companies.
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| Think basically we are in the s**t.
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| Quote ="Sensei-Bull"Surely the link between the two companies is Marc Green?'"
But the Ltd company is the legal entity isn't it so unless there was clear evidence that the companies were truly linked?
Again why didn't the RFL pay the wages from this month's central contribution? I know it would have denied the T&A their sport but it would have stopped further damage to the clubs incomes (i.e. us) etc whilst the appeal was heard, it would also have stopped the ambulance chaser charging and kept the squad settled.
After all it's not in their interest to lose a revenue stream in regards to rent. Or is it?
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| Quote ="Dannyboywt":2xt10athWhy wait until wage deadline day and not step in now, also if it's a new owner isn't it cheaper to buy the club after admin again?'" :2xt10ath
Well, yes it would be, little doubt, [i:2xt10athhowever[/i, maybe a 'fine' of TV money, as occurred previously. It also means that players and staff are allowed to cancel their contracts, it means lots of people doing business with the club, eg suppliers etc will probably lose out and be pigged off - and just as importantly it hurts, embarrasses and disaffects the very supporters any new business needs if it is to be successful.
Probably best avoided, if possible, imo.
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| Quote ="MicktheGled"The reason the bank freezes accounts is because all transactions between presentation and hearing of a WUP are voidable in the event that the WUP succeeds, and the bank can be liable to pay back any amounts paid out of the account in that period.
So unfortunately the club's and Marc Green's accounts are isolated until the September hearing.'"
Not a chance that his personal bank accounts been frozen are in anyway connected to anything that has gone on with the Bulls. Anyone who believes that is quite simply naive.
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| Quote ="debaser"It seems pretty unfair that the Bulls (a separate entity) are suffering because of the "failings" of an unrelated company.'"
This simply is not the case, the fact is that Bradford are just about insolvent and as has been mentioned should not be relying on money from a directors personal bank account to pay wages.
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| Quote ="Greg Florimos Boots"Not a chance that his personal bank accounts been frozen are in anyway connected to anything that has gone on with the Bulls. Anyone who believes that is quite simply naive.'"
Agreed, though with two WUPs in three months the banks would be very vary and freeze the clubs account.
So another one of my over active theories....I guess his plan would have been to use his account to pay the Bulls staff. However, although he left SSG in March, there's a debt against them at HMRC so looks like a fortuitous pincer movement as the bank freezes his personal accounts on that score at the same time (if both accounts are held at the same bank it's not to hard to stretch to this conclusion I guess)
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| The wage bill is far bigger than the central funding?
A squad of 40 players on £30,000 is £120,000 month
Add the 24 backroom staff on £20,000 is £40,000 month.
£780,000 / 12 is only £68,000.
Where's the other £100,000 coming from?
It's mismanagement on an industrious scale.
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| Quote ="Greg Florimos Boots"Not a chance that his personal bank accounts been frozen are in anyway connected to anything that has gone on with the Bulls. Anyone who believes that is quite simply naive.'"
Marc Green told the players they had.
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