Didn't she repeal the truck acts?

I believe it was during her reign. Perhaps it would have saved previous regimes by paying players in vouchers redeemable only in the club shop?

Well, that's where I've spent most of my wages over the years..

Didn't' George Best say the same?

I know, we should definitely all just thank our lucky stars that there are lawyers to fearlessly fight for truth and justice in such cases

If I'm honest FA, I feel that any 'proper' business man who leaves big loopholes, like not having the specific exit points properly written, line by line, into the contact, is a bit of a muppet and deserves what he gets. It's unfortunate when the resulting problem fall on his successors. That said, I still have enormous sympathy for FC, who was the victim of circumstances, not of his making, in so many ways.

FA can you please help my understanding of this by explaining why the High Court claim is for unfair dismissal, rather than breach of contract? Or have the media ( oh surely they never do that...) misrepresented FC's case? If there was a contract, then wouldnt the claim be for that, as that is the simplest easiest thing to demonstrate to a judge? - even a verbal one, as you point out. But it is unfair dismissal, which I thought was an issue for Employment Tribunals?

It isn't for unfair dismissal, which is a statutory breach. It's for wrongful dismissal, which is a breach of contract.

Wrongful dismissal claims can be heard in a Tribunal, but also in the County Court or High Court, depending on the amount being claimed. Franny's solicitors reportedly said his case is heading for the High Court, which means it is over £25K.

To be "wrongful", the employee must prove that the employer acted in breach of their contractual obligations in ending the employment, and that as a result the employee has suffered a loss.

In unfair dismissal cases the tribunal can award compensation, but that is not the case for wrongful dismissal, which is a simple question of what the employee lost. That would be whatever he was due under his contract. Including wages, perks, bonuses, pension contributions etc. But no compo.

I haven't checked the dates, but frommemory his contract was due to expire afer 3 years in Sept 2015. If that is so, then my fingers and toes suggest he was sacked less than 2 years from start of employment and so wouldn't be eligible for unfair dismissal anyway, but there's no qualifying period for wrongful dismissal.

I think FC would have started his employment with the Bulls before April 2012 - so just needed one year to have the right to pursue unfair dismissal.

However putting aside the legal details I think most would agree that while in the end FC was not able to get the results from the team required he had stood by the club in some of the most difficult years in its history - and for this if nothing else deserves to be treated fairly by his former employer

Neither was he responsible for the fact that a number of his key players cut and ran rather than be 'tuped'. It's sad it's come to all this, in truth.

Who knows? With a 'better' coach they might have stayed.

Well, Carvell and Winterstein were two Franny brought to the club, so that argument doesn't really stack up there. They, and the others, quoted worries about finances going forward, their families coming first etc, of course they may have been being somewhat disingenuous..

Cummins was appointed head coach in September 2012 so I reckon it's 2 years.

I'm no employment law expert so don't claim it as gospel, but it was reported that Cummins had rejected a fresh contract offered by the new owners, and was there working for free, wasn't he? I suppose there are very interesting legal arguments possible, but on the face of it I'd say that there had been a clean break in his former employment.


I think we're all agreed on that up to a point, but playing devil's advocate, if contractually he isn't entitled to £50K (or whatever the figure claimed is) and if you were Marc Green, would you personally nevertheless reach for your chequebook and write him a cheque for fifty grand?

I have no clue who is right and who is wrong about the alleged early termination clause, but *IF* there is one, which he and the club agreed to, where is the unfairness?

His employment rights would accrue from when he first went on the payroll as assistant coach which was I think before April 2012 when the entitlement period moved from one to two years.

Clearly I haven't seen his contract to know what the disputed clauses were, but even as a hard d accountant it does on occasion help the "brand" to be seen to be dealing fairly with your staff and ex-staff. I should add that I would not extend such generosity to Oz gits called Orfordicon_smile.gif

There have been plenty of crap coaches who have lured good players to a club. When they get there the challenge really starts. I can't think of many players who moved on citing a crap coach, it is the usual clichés as you say. Generally it is to win more games &/or trophies. I am sure there is some of that in Lowes ability to attract SL quality players for next season.

Cumming shouldn't complain. He could have been a Chinese newsreader, and got sacked for mistaking the visiting Chinese president Xi Jinping's name for the Roman numeral XI, calling him [url=http://www.businessinsider.com/afp-indian-tv-sacks-newsreader-over-eleven-jinping-blunder-2014-9"Eleven Jinping"[/url on air.

Do they have Tlibunars in China?

His time as assistant coach is irrelevant. He was made redundant from that role in the first administration. He then volunteered for free until being re-employed as head coach by Ok, which is when his continuous service would start. His assistant coaches contract was terminated by guilfoyle. It wasn't tupe'd over to OK bulls like the players.

He is one of those guys who needs to lower his profile for a while and get back to basic coaching he was out of his depth at Bradford, a spell buiding a champioship side might do him good, a bit like Powell. I doubt a big club will take him on as a head coach any time soon.

Good point - though the way he was treated above while reducing his legal entitlement to me at least makes him more deserving of a settlement.

Treating people equitably is an investment, look at how Powell's credit has risen at Cas, who knows where FC could be in the future?

Agree with that entirely. I was just talking about clubs legal obligations. Morally I think he should get a settlement. It was mentioned in original article that club had tried to come to an agreement but had failed. So maybe its a case of him wanting full 15 months wages and club offering significantly less. Think its been a bit of PR own goal and they would have been better paying full amount just to prevent bad publicity.

Francis Cummings is being tipped to take over at Halifax, should make for an interesting match up.

Having more than three props in the entire squad let alone able to play on match day, might do him some good. Last season we had more props than this, and it inspired one poster to assert that the modern game did not require props, just a load of second rowers. This season has proved him entirely wrong. How would any of the top teams fare with three props in their squad?

And why have we got SIX props in next years squad? bit of a difference, three and six? Of course the proof is when FC gets another chance, does he get rid of three of the six props in the squad because thats what he wants?

Dont forget, last season the only reason he didnt get us to the payoffs was the points deduction.

So I think you need to lower your profile a while and get back to basic facts, you are clearly out of your depth on a Bulls forum, a spell watching a balanced squad might do you some good, something every other poster on here already appreciates. I doubt that any sensible forum will take on board your comments any time soon.

Martin we had no points deduction in 2013. It was 2012 and Potter was coach

FC didn't get the Fax coaching job in the end.

Also off topic, but interesting to see that Jamie Langley has signed for Sheffield next season, so we'll be seeing him back at Odsal after all (if he isn't injured by then).

Must have missed that 10 wins 2 draws is 22 points just what we finished with.