Interesting observation that Long and Deacon didn't break the first team until they were 23/24. Just shows you that the ability to read the game/what's in front of you and then make an almost instantaneous yet composed decision at high speed in an elite game of RL can take a long time to bring out of someone.

Must admit I thought Deacon was younger than that. IIRC he was a teenager when he came here so I take back my statement about him almost fully formed when he came here.

(Cue Tigertot)

Or one of the Georgesons

I might be knocking on a bit but my lips is still young innit.

Who was that Australian Scrum Half we signed? Oh that was him " Matt Orford" and we know how that one worked out don't we? We've signed plenty over recent years and most of them are playing for rival Teams. We don't have a good record with Scrum Halves over recent years.

Deacs was 19 when he debuted in 1998 and IMO he became a fully fledged 1st team regular in 2002.

So he was 23 and Long was 24. It shows the insanity of having to make your mind up about players at 19.

Unfortunately coaches seem obsessed with playing back-rowers at HB rather than a young actual HB. Lowes with Addy & Purtell instead of giving young Adam Brook. Cunningham choosing Wilkin/Turner instead of Fages. They're scared of Young HBs making mistakes and decide to go with a first team player who has no creativity. But hey he can defend. Then said coach says in his post match interview the team didn't create anything and we were sloppy in attack.

Why we didn't give Brook a go last year beggars belief. We had a perfect opportunity to let him develop and make mistake. He was a real gem in our 19s and looked to have plenty of potential. But nah Purtell and Addy are the solution!

Times have changed a lot in terms of physical conditioning. In the 80s and 90s halfbacks usually weighed around 12-13st. Shaun Edwards was 11st! Forwards were rarely over 16st and very rarely over 17st.

The smaller bloke wasn't at such a great strength advantage and wasn't such a defensive weakness.

Nowadays the difference is much greater. The little Halfback is targeted by 17st runners. Backs are built like forwards were. He has to be able to defend.

Most smaller lads don't finish growing until their early 20s. It's no surprise that halfbacks aren't coming through at 19 years of age.

They're rarely physically mature enough to cope with 1st team rugby. Attacking wise they may be ready in some respects but defensively they're not. You have a duty of care to these lads.

You could see with southernwood how slight he was. He played at Cas and they just charged at him everytime they got the ball. To be fair to the lad I thought he handled himself well considering the size of the men that were charging him.

Somebody like Southernwood would be ideal. Had chance to physically mature and used to a tough division.

After the club and Bullbuilder supported him since he signed for the club in 2011.
The way he was ruthlessly binned by Jimmy Lowes cuts deep amongst a lot of supporters.

Those games last year against Workington and Whitehaven is when we should have given him a go at scrum half.

I do agree Bullseye but on the other side of the coin, Sam Tomkins particularly in the first couple of years didn't look anything like a rugby player physically. I think we're still waiting for Rob Burrow to be physically ready for full time rugby



Yes HBs they need to defend, but at the same time most of our team should be dropped based on their defending in recent weeks.

I want my HB to be able to kick, pass, organise and put a team mate through a gap. Danny Addy and Gaskell both miss plenty of tackles. But Addy can't really do any of what I just mentioned consistently.

Brooks been playing for Keighley in league 1 regularly so to have given him a few games against Hunslet and Workington when we absolutely dominated wouldn't have done him any harm.

It's the fact we didn't even give him a chance that annoys me when being in the championship was the perfect opportunity to do so. we found ourselves in a situation with a loose forward and centre as our HB partnership for a lot of last year and no number 7 for all of this year. It's bonkers.

The young lads we've given debuts this year have all held their own. Im sure Adam Brook would have been ok with him and Gaskell at 6&7 while we could still have been on the look out for a more experienced HB if needed and one became available. At the moment we've no one and might not get one as no one might be available.

It's very simple. We need a kicking half back who can actually pass the ball.

On a side note,how fantastic is it to see 2 props playing with such passion and vigour. Fleming and Clark have been a pleasure to watch.

I’m not sure Brooks is a playmaker. He may have been worth a shot I don’t know. I just remember him being dwarfed by the players around him when he played with the first team in pre-season games. If anything Richie Hawkyard has been getting all the plaudits at Keighley with Paul Handforth.

I take the point about Tomkins and Burrow. However neither have become playmaking halfbacks. One is a fullback, albeit a good one and the other was more of a runner and has been an impact hooker for the past 5 years at least. Sinfield and McGuire did all the playmaking at Leeds. I think a small halfback can break through when he’s young if he’s got something extra special like blinding pace off the mark like Burrow did. I have a feeling Tomkins got moved to fullback to suit his game and physical stature. His defence has never been a strong point.

Occasionally the little halfback can be a really strong defender. I remember Allan Langer and Peter Sterling being superb defenders.

I like the look of Zac Baker in the U19s but he needs to improve his contact in defence as he can get shoved off. If that happens at U19s then it’s even more likely in the first team.

Luke Walsh is a perfect example of a very talented half back who can't defend for toffee. But you don't see St. Helens leaving him out.

True. You do see plenty of moaning about his weak defence by their fans though. I guess in the end if his contribution is overall is more positive than negative then he deserves his place.

Applies to every position.

I don't blame them for moaning, especially after seeing his turnstile act against Warrington.

But you're spot on, as long as the positives outweigh the negatives, that's what matters. We have a couple of players in the team already whose defence is awful more often than it's average, but they offer something else to the team that means you put up with it (Omari Caro shouts as the perfect example).

I've moved on. My ire is currently focused on Matty Smith, a penniless man's Paul Deacon.

And yet he played centre for GB, I think against the Kiwis.

Yes he was marking Dean Bell of all people.

Someone else I would take in less than a heart beat.

I wouldn't touch him with a barge pole. OK while his team is on top & he has space to kick, but hopeless under pressure, shocking passing, can't tackle & is slower than a sloth. His kicking is mediocre unless it is peeing down.

When can he start?

Does anybody know what the situation is with our cheaper version of Fui Fui Moi Moi is. Not a mention anywhere in the last few week, we know he's not injured, a loan move seems unlikely, who wants him??. Disappeared off the radar

Having said this I fully expect to read in tomorrow's T&A that he's signed for Leeds on loan for rest of season

Nope not a clue.

Irks me that Lowes persisted with him in crucial games last year while every fan could see he wasn't good enough.

Now Lowes has actually given someone else a chance, Fleming his playing exceptionally well at the moment and now Lauaki is our 7th choice prop. Wbay would have happened If Lowes wasn't too stubborn, dropped Lauaki like everyone was crying out for, and played Fleming in that MPG. Another case of what if.

Can't say I remember many people calling for fleming to play instead of lauaki last year. Fleming looked poor last year when he did play. This year he's improved a lot. Not sure if he's bulked up a bit or just that hes a year older.

With sidlow and kavanagh coming into reckoning in next week or so, hopefully we're trying to come to a compromise agreement with lauaki to release him. Can't see him playing for us again.