Well we're supposed to have dyed in the wool rugby league men running the show now, so I'm neither worried about shedding some of the current players, who frankly won't be good enough as long as they have holes in their heads and the right recruits for next year.

Time for Mr. Lowe to tear himself away from his old boys lunches, and get on a plane to assess some proper players.

That is the least of my expectations as a fan.

Every time we hit the bottom of the barrel we break through it and find another barrel underneath. It's a bit like the china syndrome.

Yes, I'd welcome a bit of a mini clear out and re-build around what is left of some of our youngsters or players who genuinely have the stomach for the fight. Still carrying too many passengers who talk a good game in the press but ultimately come up short when it gets a bit tasty or come up against enthusiastic part time players.

It's also surely about time we heard on arguably the most important appointment... who is going to be coaching this bunch? Toovey has been very coy about his plans for the long term. It's perhaps up for debate as to whether he's the right man for that division anyway, can't say we've seen much benefit of his NRL experience this year. Wonder if John Kear could be tempted away from Wakefield?

The problem I see is all good league one players will be signed up by now! So how are we going to compete

Who knows, but I guess that can be the excuse for next years failings too. Given the lack of information we continue to be given I'm pretty much decided that I'll be looking at doing something else to fill my Sunday's next year other than perhaps the odd match if I can be bothered.

Not only are we good at missing the boat, our best junior hopes for the future float away too.

Can you explain "lower teams"?

Possibly referring to the lower teams in league 1 such as Hemel, Coventry, South Wales etc.

They're not only lower than us on the table but lower than us geographically speaking too

I believe you mean [i"Could be like our relegation into the championship where we quickly found our true level...."[/i

No. He means what he wrote. HTH.

We need the positions, taken this season by loanees and DR, to be filled by proper signings (whether we are full or part time) who will be here all season. We will also need to replace the regulars who get a gig elsewhere, probably Ryan, Oakes and Bentley from the youngsters and at least a couple of our better players who decide to go. It will mean a fair bit of expenditure just to do that, to be fair, so replacing our already signed players who wish to remain, however much some people have a down on them, is unlikely to be much of a priority imo. Indeed, I'd think it may well be a financial bridge too far.

If we can do that we should be in reasonable shape. Just not having to worry about loanees turning up will, in itself, be a big boost to our fortunes. As will having a 12 point advantage on the board when we kick off...

And also the fact we can earn promotion by what we do in that league. Not playing 23 games to then start on zero and try beat teams in a league above us.

A very generous interpretation, IMO of course.

So dragged down from where, exactly?

It's been obvious for the past three seasons that teams raise their game when they play us. We've seen it time and time again. A good part of that has been the attitude of some of our players during that time, who appeared to think that they simply have to turn up to beat teams who - in [itheir[/i perception, as much as anyone else - are on a lower level. Many of those players have now departed and seem to be doing quite well at various SL clubs. Why they couldn't seem to play at that level when they played for us in the Championship is a mystery that is quite difficult to unravel...

I think we've seen less of that this season - but there are still players and [isome[/i of the fans (not all) - who seem to think that we have some sort of divine right to be beating teams like Swinton, Oldham and (season season) Keighley and Hunslet.

If you go back to my original post, the point I was making was that this attitude needs to go. As the saying goes 'We are where we are'. Given the history, full-time setup, fanbase, player budget etc we [iought[/i to be on a higher level than those teams. But the fact is that we are not!

Can you honestly not see the difference in intensity between SL matches and Championship games?

The danger of playing an entire season of champ games is that you become accustomed to the slower pace the game is played at, ptb is far slower, refereeing is far more lenient of infringements - especially when games are full time vs part time.
So to go through a whole season of that and then try to play SL at their pace can be incredibly difficult. That is exactly how you can find yourself trapped in this division, and that is what he meant by being dragged down to this level.

What Bullseye was saying and meaning is that we were an SL side for 19 years. We were then relegated as we weren't good enough. Due to a b@t crazy system we were then expected to earn promotion by beating SL sides while playing in the championship. We had to try and keep an SL style intensity. We didn't. He's not saying a featherstone or a Batley are now a lower team than us NOW...

You're a bloody touchy so and so.

At the start of 2015 we were comfortably the 2nd best side in the division. A year later we were top 4. By the end of 2016 we were also rans. Now relegation fodder.

Many of our players went backwards in that time.

I hope in 2018 we go with Butterworth as our starting 7. Keyes jist not up to it sadly. Oh and never sign anymore London players.

And by my calculations we are now officially relegated (I think)

With only 12 points available we'd need to win all our remaining games and Swinton to lose all theirs with points difference being the decider, so yes we're effectively relegated.

At least the club can now end the pretence that they don't know what league they're playing in next year or its time for the RFL to come clean with their restructure. I hear the major stumbling block is Rimmer, who is vehmently against a change for next year to save the Bulls, with the sports credibility on the line.

Cue the Bulls crowds falling off a cliff for the foreseeable, wake me up when we're no longer a joke please!

And, at least on this one occasion, he is absolutely correct in his opinion

Yep, 12 points behind with 12 to play for however the scheduled Swinton v Oldham game means it is all over.

Presumably the sport's credibility was not on the line in January when they forced us to stay in the Championship with no squad.

Andrew Henderson said it best a couple of months back - The RFL are very similar to the Bulls of the last few years. Can't see beyond the end of their nose and have no plan for beyond the next 6 months and if they do they implement it too late to be effective.