BB2014 provided a business plan to the RFL (which they say bizarrely it did not read) which business plan precisely equals your "cutting cloth" requirement. BB2014 did not go bust. The business plan (which is for 5 years) does not end up in a deficit, so on what grounds do you claim the cuts made "were clearly not enough"?

BB2014 did not run up the debts of the previous administration, yet had said that they would try to sort out those creditors, to whatever extent that would have been a substantial additional cash outflow. BB2014 were not fined the equivalent of a full year's distribution, yet they were being told they would have to pay it. BB2014 did not receive a penny of the thousands of season ticket sales in 2014, but had to meet the expenses of the whole SL 2014 season. It is reasonable in those circumstances to ask for time to pay off the previous administration's fine, and it is reasonable to ask for an advance of your own money (half of which is of course continuing to be paid to each and every other SL club).

You seem to be convinced BB2014's numbers did not stack up, yet the RFL did not reject them.

We got none of Super League's News Limited cash in our first season. Not sure of the figure but it was £X less than the what the rest had.

Not sure what you mean by "the RFL didn't read the business plan" - they clearly stated it was not fit for purpose.

If the cuts were enough, why is begging bowl out for 500k to operate NOW.

The debts may have been run up by the previous BoD(s), but they are the debts of Bradford Bulls.

The business plan of BB2014 made no provision to pay creditors - not even HMRC.

The ST thing is very unfortunate, as is the loss of TV funding - but these things were known about before putting together the business plan and before submitting the bid to buy the club.

Why is it reasonable to use tomorrow's money to pay today's bills??? That's no way to run a household, never mind a large business.

Question - If Bulls can't make income match outgoings, what should/will happen to the club?

I know what the statement said but the point is is that they didn't in real life ask for a 500K loan. They asked for the cut in sky money to be spread over 5 years.

It's a bit like when they issued a statement saying that they had purchased the lease of Odsal from the club that it was to prevent predators that wanted to take it away from Rugby league. When in actual fact it was to cover a 700K secret loan that hadn't been paid back.

Again they state a lot of things the RFL.

I do wish people would stop quoting the morons I have on my ignore list.....

Spare a thought for moderators who don't have the luxury of an ignore button at all. We have to make do with 'ban' and 'warn'.....

It now appears they were trying to buy the club with no money. They were the same as Omar - no money. I am Bradford through and through but if we were broke how can we afford to sign 4-5 players in the pre-season? It seems like every pretend millionaire that has taken us over lately has followed the same business plan of spend what we don't have. It is time to stop this and start again in a lower division if a proper money man doesn't come along.

The quote was from MM, not me. Is he lying?


As you know the clubs often seek advances from the RFL and these are often provided, without publicity. As you know, there are obvious reasons why cash flow is extremely tight for whoever would be perating BB just ow, and a request for advances wouldn't be a shock.

But being the type of person you are, you instead refer to this as "getting out the begging bowl". You don't get why you are despised for doing this? Do you know what a "begging bowl" is? It is for gifts. As BB2014 asked for no gifts, YOU are lying. And you can't deny that.


A pointless conflation. The RFL's concern is the integrity of their competition. In the business world companies go into and out of administration all the time, and many creditors, including HMRC, are shafted and can do nothing about it. So the debts are most definitely NOT the debts of the Bradford Bulls, in the sense you state. You are again LYING.

The reason the RFL want them paying is not to make their competition look bad, and NOT because there is any liability. Indeed, the RFL specifically admit that the new club might go on without paying a penny, in SL, and be accepted as such and if that happens they dock points as a sanction.


Liar. What it did not contain was a specific guarantee to fully pay all creditors.


ST yes, but distribution absolutely not. That was announced, and then only in passing, in a press report last week. At which point, BB2014 had not been asked to agree to it (which they would have to do). Still, and to their credit, BB2014 would have gone ahead and run the club, despite all this, but it was the "special measures" thing that broke the camel's back. They felt badly let down and misled over the points, but that was not the key. Nor was paying off creditors, nor the Sky distribution.


FFS, as I keep saying (but you lknow) many clubs seek advances from time to time. And as I keep repeating, the special circumstances of BB2014 right now obviously to anyone have good and exceptional reasons why cashflow is exceedingly tight. It is a perfectly normal way to run a business. Even the biggest companies in the world rely on bank finance borrowings loans and overdrafts. Only a financial dunce would not know that.


But that is exactly what the budget does. Unless you believe they lodged a budget that showed a permanent deficit each year??

Let me ask you two questions:

1. If you were starting up a new business (which BB2014 are) do you think it would be unusual to go to a bank or finance house with your facts figures and business plan, details of how much money you needed to start up and going forward, and ask for a loan? (Clue: the answer is: No - that is how it invariably works)

2. If that business was the Bulls, and you had done a business plan with projections etc., and after you'd done the plan, that plan was scuppered by severe sanctions which meant that not only would the game change dramatically from what you planned as you were almost certain to face relegation, but also that for the foreseeable, you were effectively prevented from running your own business, what would you say?

Can't you just add an "exterminate" button?

Financing and running a business does not always mean having a few million in your own pocket to start with. They were trying to save the club. They are not a sugar daddy nor ever claimed to be. Some will now say that means I'm "an apologist" for them - but absolutely not, it is just they always made clear that they would do their best to run the business, but that they did not have pots of money to chuck in. So they are exactly what it said on the tin. We were under no illusions.

You want a sugar daddy, but it seems there isn't one spare.

If there is someone out there who wants to start a Bradford club to play from scratch in a lower division, then there isn't anything to stop them, regardless of the Bulls. Have a crack, if you fancy it. However it will be a sad day if the only way a club can play in SL is if it has "a proper money man" bankrolling it. What you mean is, the club would be in reality running at a huge operating loss, but nobody would care because somebody was ploughing the extra missing millions in. Are you a Chelsea fan?

minor point but the bb2014 didnt sign 4-5 players in pre-season. All the signing were made during last season by OK regime before he stepped down.

With all the sh=ite coming out on the forum at the moment can this be renamed Touching Cloth

You make statements that suggest you have seen the Bulls business plan submitted to the RFL. Have you or you just making assumptions to suit your POV?

I haven't seen it, but I have seen the statements from the RFL, which state that the new BoD's plan was flawed, that no payments to creditors or HMRC were to be made and that they had no confidence in the bid going forward (which I was amazed at, given they had picked BB2014 as the suceesful bid over Mr Lamb!!).

You are out of order calling me a liar, for using information in the public domain to form my opinion of the situation.

I can see why you feel the term "begging bowl" is emotive - fine, but to one minute say "we are solvent and don't need to sell players, they are ringfenced", to then be outed as asking for a 500k advance (which if given would leave you a hole further down the line), undermines the credibility of BB2014 totally.

It seems clear that BB2014 don't have the capital to buy and run the Bulls.

Have you actually seen the business plan?

Clearly you are not an adult as you suggest that it is normal for any household not to have a mortgage, credit cards, overdraft or hire purchase.

If you run a poll I'll put it forward after the result.
If you win of course

I have never stated that I have seen the business plan. Well, plans, there have been more than one.

You stated an untruth when you said the Bulls were "getting out the begging bowl". It simply has not happened. And seemingly was misleading too. It's not that that's "emotive", it's just not the truth. If you didn't mean to say the Bulls were begging ie for gifts, then you could say so and apologise, instead of crying about being called on it.

You have forgotten that it was not you, but the RFL and the administrator, who had to decide whether or not BB2014 had credibility and whether they had the funds to buy and run Bradford Bulls. The RFL and administrator plainly felt that they did, otherwise their bid (described in terms as "the strongest offer"icon_wink.gif was accepted. Therefore to reasonable people, it can't be "clear" at all. And many have now asked, including respected journalists, if the Bulls bid/plan really was that bad, why did the RFL until very recently seem to be steering and encouraging the new owners into place? Odd, that.

I also note you have declined to answer either of the 2 questions I posed for you.

Of course most households and businesses in this country fund themselves through borrowing of one sort or another, but these are dangerous tools to use if you don't have reasonable certainty you can meet the repayments. As they like to say in business schools "hope is not a strategy"

Haha. Now it's clear, you have no idea and are just wearing RAB coloured specs!

Despite you calling me and the RFL liars, you are right in stating it is not for me to decide the credibility of BB2014, but the RFL.

The RFL statement is clear in slating the BB2014 bid - it was full of holes.

And I am not crying, far from it, unlike Moore when he spat his dummy.

The most unequivocal and clear, factual information in all this has come from the RFL statement. It damns BB2014 and leaves no doubt about their credibility. None whatsoever.

The point is that the information is NOT in the public domain. The information is the business plan and nobody on this forum has probably seen it. What is in the public domain is a statement from the RFL saying the plan was flawed and one from MM saying the opposite. What I don't understand is that the RFL board brought in a fabulous sponsorship sponsorship deal with Eddie Stobart that simply resulted in several lorries being painted. They then held a world cup that they couldn't get any sponsorship deal at all. And the brought in a two division competition that turns into three and then god knows what happens. I know which statement I believe.

It's quite staggering how the RFL have gone from commercially incompetent and not fit to run the sport to the best judge of a business plan and the source of infallible truths in a week. Did they hire someone new

So t'Bulls need to cut their cloth for a happy ending?

Got it.

Someone call Barbara [uTaylor[/u-[uBradford[/u.

Ahh, I'm hilarious.

I asked you a question couple of days ago and I'm still waiting for your answer.How come you have posted more times on here in last 48 hours than any of us Bulls fans have.I think we all know the answer don't we

Closet Bull

I don't think they hired someone new it's just that someone different got involved. After months of negotiation and guidance from Solly and Rimmer BB2014 finally saw Nigel (the fat controller) last Monday for the first time when he sat on the whole scheme. It would seem that Big Nige knows where the bodies are buried and nobody can stand against him. Seem to remember that Ceausescu thought the same. it would be unchristian to hope he meets the same fate.