Goo way to lose the argument.

:2abxzcwx
Bit uncalled for TT.

I don't think you'll find it much different on any individual club's board to be fair. Let's be honest the vast majority on here come on to discuss Bull's matters and would naturally tend to have their metaphorical 'Bradford hat' on when they do so. I mean it's not the VT..[



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Whether the SL club is the 'be all and end all' as regards amateur players I don't know but it's likely to make a fair difference. No Broncos equals no local pathway into the pro game, so it will screw up the elite end in the southern counties, that's for sure. For those who are only looking at a recreational level maybe not as much, but I wouldn't put money on it.

Ahhh the London question...

Honestly, I think they would benefit from a few seasons in the Championship.

Let's face it, we all know that a certain amount of your fanbase as a sporting club is attracted to, and will only show up for, a winning side. It's an ugly sporting truth that we'd all rather didn't exist, but true none the less.

So here we have the (almost) perennial cellar dwellers of SL, and if they're not bottom, they're there or there abouts. That's not going to attract fans, or local interest. And without a Salford-esque influx of players and cash, this isn't going to turn around any time soon.

However, put them in the Championship where (with no disrespect to the Championship sides) the standard is a bit more thier pace. All of a sudden you have a team that's much more competative. Fair enough, they might not be competing for silverware at top level, but if they're WINNING silverware at another level, surely this is going to be better for them as a club? Not only that but if they start winning more games per season than you can count on one hand, as a Londoner surely you're going to start paying a bit more attention. SL or not, I would imagine it's more appealing to support a team who's winning and competing, than attempting to fight off the wooden spoon every year. And if they manage to win promotion to SL at a later date, good on 'em.

I'm not sure, however, what you'd do with the gap they've left in SL, or what Sky would do in terms of cash, but as a club that would be London's best bet in my opinion.

I disagree, Sombrero.

Outside of the heartlands, there is no rugby (of the good code) between Super League and the amateur game - at least that is the perception.

And all those successful heartland clubs struggling to attract 1,500 doesn't support your argument.

But the whole experiment with London in SL isn't working. Surely the best way to develop RL outside of the heartlands is to generate interest by having teams outside the heartlands competing for silverware and honors?

If you're a new, developing team which would you prefer, getting tonked week in week out in SL, or winning the Northern Rail Cup? Which is going to boost your profile more and attract more interest in your local area?

It's the whole thing about success breeds success.

No, but my argument is about London, a team with a potentially huge fan base in complete isolation. Rather than a team in the heartlands where there are only so many people and a lot of clubs to choose from. How many people who live in/around Leigh are Wigan fans etc etc. I'm not saying it would work for all clubs, but I think it would do London some good.

Edit: Well, relative isolation considering London Skolars. But much more isolated than the other clubs.

I don’t think London have ever had the right kind of backing, both from the RFL and from whoever was bankrolling them. Their brief period with Branson in charge threatened to put them on the map but that fizzled out. What they need first is someone with some money to spend who’s prepared to bankroll them. They need serious London weighting in the salary cap to attract the best talent, not the poor excuse they have at the moment and they need some expert marketing to get them on the up. They also need to play in London and not bloody Barnet or some other place out on a limb.

Things seem to go around in circles. They’ve played all over the capital and beyond and never really put serious roots down (Fulham, Hendon, Crystal Palace, Brentford, The Valley, The Stoop etc). It hasn’t helped at all. Then there’s the name. They were Fulham for a while and everyone said they should be called London as being Fulham excluded other Londoners. Well that didn’t help much either. Being associated with Quins was a mistake and associated them with a monied elitist brand. They need some clued up marketeers to put some serious hours in to sort out things like this once and for all.

IMO the option of letting them go to the championship might sound like the kindest thing to do looking at their current position. However the game needs a top flight presence in the capital. Otherwise it looks like a small time minority sport. If we want to go back to part time rugby league and forget about ever competing with NZ and Australia ever again then fine.

Haven't they just binned the NRC? Until the RFL confirm what the league structure actually is, its a moot point discussing who should be in it.

Kids are initially not that bothered about success. The first thing they want is to be associated with something perceived as cool. No-one can convince me that anyone going to watch yawnion has much of an idea what's going on, ditto American Football. But it doesn't stop them getting huge crowds on the back of great marketing & a sympathetic media. There would be zero profile if London were in the Northern Rail Cup. Regular Sky & national newspaper coverage has to be a key ingredient. That will only come from SL.

Spot on - you do need a successful London presence to attract national media coverage and sponsorship. And though our narrowminded clubs rarely put the game as a whole first it is in their interest to have a London club generating attention. However as is clear there is not sufficient cash in the game to support much of the current Super League clubs as Bulls fans know only too well, so not sure where the cash required to put London on a sound footing would come from. But reading the comments above you can see the game at all levels is drifting and who has responsibilty for the game: the RFL

What do you suggest the RFL do? Go out & find a major sponsor? Why would anyone want to pump millions into a M62 sport watched by working class people not interested in broadening their RL horizons? Unless it's gambling or beer, which I am not sure whether they are still off-limits, I don't know where it's coming from.

That is the Catch-22. You need a London presence to attract the national media and sponsors, but currently cannot afford to do it successfully.

But at the moment we have so much uncertainty: what is going to be the future format?, will the Bulls status be ratified?, what cup competitions will be running?, will we find even a minor sponsor ? These are areas where the RFL should be showing leadership.

Well, because it gets the second highest viewing figures on Sky year after year. There are more people live within 30 minutes travel of the M62 than on the entire east coast of Australia. I'm not making case for getting rid of London but at a talk recently I think Phil Caplan said that more kids played RL in the suburb of Newcastle (Sydney) than across our heartland.
Even the big derby games don't always top 20k attendances.

I think there's a massive room for expansion and investment in our own area. The abandonment of Sheffield for instance. York is a huge area/population compared to 30 years ago. Maybe what I'm musing on is the catapulting of Super league clubs into areas where there's traditionally been no game needs a rethink. I'm far from convinced Sky would abandon the game because London weren't represented any more than I think getting rid of London is remotely desirable.

I also think the issue of 'class' is interesting. When I was a kid the game was popular among teachers far more than football. The stand at Headingley or Odsal may have had working class roots but it was and probably still is an aspiring working class/lower middle class group.

RL used to attract some big name sponsors (Powergen/Guinness/Tetleys) so why couldn't that happen again?

Nowt wrong with brewery sponsorship IMO.

Agreed - one of the few things that unites most fans - a decent pint. Mind you would be happy to take sponsorship from an industrial cat's brewery providing I did not have to drink their stuff!

I think there's a problem with French TV and beer advertising. There was something about Aussie shirts causing a fuss because they had VB as their sponsor

I am not disputing the things you say (other than the bit about Newcastle; I have been there & cannot believe there are more play than Wigan/Hull/Leeds etc combined, not that that is much to celebrate) but where is the funding going to come from for long term investment in Sheffield, York or anywhere? Advertisers, who pump in the money, are bothered about the class of viewer & supporter. On average no-one watches polo, tennis or golf, apart from once or twice a year, but look at the bling sponsors they get. I am not impressed with Nigel Wood, but that is more his physical appearance than anything he has particularly done, but I was by Richard Lewis who was doing such a good job that he was head hunted by tennis. But he struggled to make any headway.

Well if it keeps the French happy I don't mind being sponsored by Moet, Lanson or Tattinger, Mrs Relic would be over the moon

Lewis got a sponsor for the elite comp at least. Nobody watches polo period. It's hugely susbsidised by its participants to the extent it can hardly be called a professional game. Tennis has a huge international circuit which draws viewers all across the world. It's as cheap to film something in London and send it to Singapore as it is to send it to Edinburgh.

I agree in part about advertisers looking at demographics but it's a great deal more complicated than you're making out. A huge factor in ITV pushing the boat out for Champions League football was that the advertisers want access to young men of all classes because as a group they're disappearing from the TV watching group and they tend to get money and spend every penny. As a group many will have more disposable income for instance than a young middle class couple with two kids.

I think where we disagree is on your point about where to find the money for long term investment in the big cities on our fringe. I think the failure to market the game with it's TV partners and subsequent failure to get a sponsor for the WC or SL is inexcusable. I've never understood why SKY or the RFL allow clubs to play on Friday in direct competition with the Sky game. The Friday night game and Monday night footy should be THE big TV events. Friday with 4 games and Saturday tea time is a total waste.