So, let me get this straight. WITH Sam B., we really challenged this year, right? Not that I want him to go, but at least try to work out the simple points.

Not at all but IF he stays the rebuild wouldn't be as big because you nearly made the 8 whereas without him you'll need to spend hell of a lot more.

Hang on. Lousy season, yes, but when did we last have a lousy season? We have no right to be top four.


You could say that if we had lost the last 5 to go with what has gone before. I wouldn't agree but you could at least have had a point. However how is a team that has won its last 5 "in freefall"? Have you got a bag on your head?

No, its not though. Is it?

Go talk to Hull or Quins - THAT is "freefall".

We had all the signs of being in freefall for much of the season, especially in the third quarter of the season when we were worse than freefalling. The absolute nadir for me was that unacceptable loss to a poor Quins side at Odsal. But, had we but known it at the time, that WAS the nadir. Winning 5 from 5 (or 6 from 7) shows that the fall was arrested and - for now at least - the recovery started.

What matters now is whether the recovering trend will continue into next season, or whether we will experience a "double-dip". Seems quite a few on here are assuming the latter - although against the trend of results. I don't see now how anyone - unless with an already-closed mind - can see what next season will bring, until we see the 2010 lot out on the park, and playing in earnest.

I think you are one with a bag over your head, another blinkered fan taken in by five wins against bottom of the table teams. Let me make it simple for you:

2007 - 3rd
2008 - 5th
2009 - 9th

[size=200FREEFALL[/size

Please god stop it, my sides are aching

Yes, I really do think that he has learned a lot about being a coach this season. I think in the past six weeks he's learned how to motivate his players and I believe it will carry through to next season.




See above.



To preform with the same amount of passion and agression as we have seen on the decent run. If we show these then we will go along way to getting back into the playoffs.

Since when were Hudds a bottom of the table team?

Hull and Quins were above us until this run of wins. NOT "bottom of the table teams".

We still finished above Wire.

Whilst no-one should be getting excited about us being out of the woods now - its clearly too early to see yet - equally, its disingenuous to discount the recent improvement because it does not suit the argument!

Nail. Head. Hit.

Spot on.

Don't you know, they will always be a bottom of the table team because - well they just are


Nooooo, we [ican't [/ihave done. Didn't they appoint the guru of coaching gurus who showed us all how it should be done? Least that's the conversation I remember having on here. ('Oh but they won the cup so thats OK

)


Improvement? We're "in freefall" aren't we?

My mistake, I forgot one of the teams was Huddersfield.

It is not an arguement, it is a fact. Whether we started the season well then it went down hill like Hull or we started the season poorly and finished well like we did it really doesn't matter. The only point that matters is that our finishing positions are getting worse, it's simple as that.

"The only point that matters"?



I mean, if that's your personal view fair enough, but it's frankly ludicrous. There's a million points "that matter".

I beg to differ. as Henry Ford said, history is more or less bunk. The 2009 season is history now - few will lament its passing. I'd rather look to the future, which has yet to be written and which does not have to be more of the same, than to the past.

If this was the economy and the great recession you were looking at, applying your logic things will just get worse and worse. Yet the most recent data suggest that we may have hit the bottom a few weeks ago and are now - slowly - hauling ourselves back up out of the pit. The present "green shoots" could prove to be a false dawn and we could well yet see a double-dip. Indeed, in terms of unemployment we surely will. But at least the economy looks to be trending the right way at last, and commentators (and me) whilst still very concerned are less pessimistic than they were a few months ago.

I suggest we may have a parallel here with the situation at the Bulls - too early to tell if the corner has really and sustainably been turned, but recent indications more positive than negative?

The encouraging bit is we showed the ability to win a tight game whereas earlier in the season if we'd have gone from 18-6 up to 18 all you know we'd have collapsed. That's signs of progress but only starting from a very low base.

Halley, Kopczak and Donaldson are all showing signs of being very useful. We now know Sykes best position isn't centre or fullback, Platt's starting to look like he can play rugby and Deacon's showing he still has some ability even if he hasn't always showed it this season. So we appear to have cover for all positions but what we lack is top class in a couple of positions. I'd hope for at least 2 from scrum half, stand off and centre.
Add 2 grand final winners in Hall and L'Estrange and in my opinion the only confirmed out we'll miss is Morrison I'd say at the start of next year we can put out a better side than we could this.

But what about their form over the last 10 games of the season Hull 2 from 10. Quins 1 from 10.

Exactly, though. We finished on a sharply rising trend after an awful year; those two went into freefall after starting brightly. End of the day, its not how you start that matters its how you finish. And I'd say Bulls fans ought to be a fair bit happier than Hull or Quins fans (or for that matter Wire fans except for a certain fancy pot) right now?

OK, no-one can be happy about where we finished. But reading some of the feelings on here, you'd think it was US who'd finished on a long losing run?

That's the point I was trying to make did those wins come about because we'd improved or because they had dropped off remarkably.
This is tough one for me because if you look at our season it's the start that's cost us 5 points from a possible 20. Like you say you do want to finish strong but you can't start so poorly.
Why we've all missed out on the play offs.
Like wise do we forget about the previous 6 months and the other false dawns we've had.

It was interesting that our recovery coincided with Newton not being in the side.Pity it took so long to find Sykes best role, particularly has he had shown us against Saints earlier in the season he was good at half back. Burgess has made a good impact player, and they have played for each other in the last few games.

We finished on a winning run, and starting to look like a motivated team and not a bunch of disinterested strangers.

Hull and Quins precisely the opposite.

Are you seriously saying that had we finished on a continuing losing run, and continued to look like a load of disinterested strangers (not that Hull did last night, mind), you would be no more unhappy than you are now?

Because that's effectively what you just said.

Regarding Newton...indeed.

Its interesting that Macca got there in the end with those three decisions.

What I'd really like to know is whether he was hamstrung by injuries earlier in the campaign from making those changes, or whether he didn't work it out till recently. If the latter, most people would suggest that that was an adverse reflection on him as head coach. And I think they would be right, too. But, even so, and too late as it transpired, at least he did work it out in the end so that surely has to be a more positive sign?

I still don't believe that the problems that have affected us all seaon have been sorted thats why i'm notgetting too carried away like most people seem to be are doing.

Don't see much sign of people getting carried away, to be honest. Just maybe folk finding reasons to be less morbid and downright miserable than they maybe have felt until recently. Realise hope does not work for everyone though. But maybe one or two more people than hitherto have half-full glasses than half-empty ones now?

I don't see anyone getting carried away, this season has been a major disappointment. However, I do see people saying 'season over, ended on a decent streak, let's see what happens next year'. Not too unreasonable IMO

As a starter I'll say that we are renewing season tikets next week BUT,
there has been too many dire performances this year with lack of effort and application that are not mitgated with a few wins towards the end.
Rather those latter performances show how bad previous ones were.

Carried away?

Most people?

Are you drunk?

Who TF has seemed remotely carried away to you, then? Where?