Don't worry with our new youth policy there will be plenty more Burgesses coming through the ranks.

Quite literally

I think if we're sticking by Deacs for another season which looks likely, then we'll have to seriously strenghten our pack. I'm not saying Bailey will ever replace Burgess but him and a world class prop would.

I really hope this isn't true. Bailey is a crap player, even Kopczak is better than him and that's saying something.
Add to that his crap disciplinary record and poor temperament and it looks even worse.

It's no surprise his appearances for the Rhinos have been few and far between since Bluey arrived - a top quality coach saw what a waste of space Bailey was.

Quite. Animal Andy Lynch has given away far more penalties. Otherwise their stats are similar. =whiteHonest.

Again...whats his record like?

And how many times has Bluey dropped him?

IMO Bailey is under rated. He does a good job for Leeds. Besides, most props would look ordinary playing along side Peacock..

Without going into reasons, I would not be at all surprised if it was to transpire that that Macca had been enquiring about available or potentially-available props. And it must be a safe bet that Macca has known or suspected about Sam for some time?

Just what I was thinking.

I`d rather use langley at prop and play donaldson at 13 than sign bailey as sams replacement.

I'd take Bailey, he's underrated IMO. He gets around the field well, wins a lot of penalties and has a bit of mongrel that we're lacking.

Ok he may not have the greatest appetite for work but he's certainly a good prop by SL standards. We're not trying to win the NRL here.

If Crossley can lose some flab then he's worth more gametime in 2010 but at the moment he doesn't look ready to me.

We're unlikely to find a forward as good as Burgess (on song) but I reckon we can find someone who can contribute and be more cosistent.

I just hope any players we get in compensation address the lack of potency at halfback and threequarters.

I`d have andy kain from featherstone as our scrum half, accept 200k for sam..give fev 50k for kain, give koppy a new deal or move langley to prop.

Then offer whitehaven 50k for either calvert or adebisi.

A fast attacking young scrumhalf and a fast winger plus 100k for sam will do.

I agree. I think Bailey has lost some self belief since the reality of SL hit him; not being in the regular starting 13 for a couple of years must also dent confidence. Scruton took his time to settle in, now he is one of your better players (not difficult, granted) & becoming a favourite. I could see Bailey doing the same. Lynch, Scruton, Bailey, Langley/Kopczak is not a bad front row option. The frankly stupid comments about tearing up your season ticket application would soon be forgotten.

Lynch, Scruton, Bailey, Kopczak isn't bad but we are lacking an impact forward. The first two are good props, the second is decent and Koppy is coming along but still not quite there.

Saints tore us apart with Puletua and Faasavalu. Leeds have Lauitiiti. Wigan have Paleassina and did have Hock!

We need a player who can come off the bench and take us up a level against a tiring defence. In days gone by we brought on Anderson and Fielden for this job and what a impact they made!

IMO Langley's not a prop, he's too small to make any ground forward and we'd struggle for go-forward I reckon if we had him at prop.

Hopefully the likes of Crossley, Lilycrop and the twins will come through in the next couple of years and see us right.

At last some sense

If you type "youtube ryan bailey" into google you may get the answer you are looking for.

Bailey is more of a duration prop than an impact forward. He may have battered Fasavalu but SBW battered him not so long ago I think.

Rather sign someone in the mold of a young Joe Vagana

I'd rather have both!

An impact forward is defo someone we need, someone who can turn the game with 2 or 3 drives, Fuifui Moimoi would be perfect, but very unlikely.

Yep the fact he once scored a try against us at Odsal has completely changed my mind.

IMHO he's useless, likes the cheap shot and hides away when the going gets tough. He has little go forward, gives plenty of penalties away and is at very best a poor to average prop. Comparing him and Scruton for last year - Bailey took up more carries, but won less metres and gave away twice as many penalties. We knew Scruton wasn't the finished article but he's getting there, Bailey is going backwards. We need an impact prop not another average plodder, particularly one who likes to mouth off before hiding away, that's hardly introducing a bit of mongrel.

I reckon Lynch, Hall, Scruton and Koppy is a reasonable front row that would be helped by an impact prop. But it will amount to nothing unless we get the half back situation sorted out.

The irony of course is that we have one of the best prop/sr/sls in the world at the moment but we're apparently planning on getting rid of him.

Interestingly after a little research on the Superleague website the stats for Langley make for sobering reading concerning in some areas.

Since 2005 he's made a lot more tackles which suggests he's being used differently but his missed tackles have gone up alarmingly:

2005 - 11
2006 - 25
2007 - 27
2008 - 40
2009 - 53 (so far)

On Penalties conceded it's gone up too:

2005 - 2
2006 - 14
2007 - 15
2008 - 20
2009 - 18 (so far)

Generally speaking he's made more or less the same no of appearances each year apart from 2007 where he made only 16.

I noticed his try returns t'other day - they have dropped off dramatically as well.

Those stats probably aren't bad for Langley if you calculate the % of misses. I think he has one of the best stats in the league for tackles from marker.

He does more work now undoubtedly but by my reckoning he averages more misses.

One factor you can tell from the stats is that defensively, since 2005 we've gone down the toilet. Even our better performers, like Andy Lynch have averaged more and more missed tackles.

There was a thread not so long back decrying the defensive inabilities of Sykes, Jeffries, Deacon and Sheriffe. Add to that the increasing number of misses by the forwards and you can see why we're 3rd from bottom. Defensively we're weak and have got weaker each season since 2005.

Offensively it's just as bad for Deacon, here's some stats:

Try Assists:

03 - 21
04 - 23
05 - 17
06 - 16
07 - 11
08 - 13
09 - 5

Clean Breaks:

03 - 26
04 - 14
05 - 21
06 - 10
07 - 7
08 - 3
09 - 5

The more I look at these stats the more I worry for 2010 unless we make some changes to the coaching staff. Whatever is going on at training is taking us backwards.

Same, he's a good prop. I like him.