I think we possibly need to take stock in July and at the end of the season. In July because we need to be sure that the Wigan debacle was just an abberation. Like you I agree we need that caveat if drastic measures are needed because of the points Cibaman raises below:

Well firstly what a refreshing change this thread is.

These are the sort of threads that get the ideas flowing and there has been some really good, sensible and constructive comment made so far (for both sides of the argument).

I, like the majority of you on here, am a lifelong Bulls (/Northern) fan. The club has been in my family for more than a couple of generations and it has become synonymous with how we live our lives. I'll continue to watch them whether we're the top of the SL, bottom of SL or in the NL's. I get the feeling a big percentage of the core 10k supporters probably feel the same.

We saw Wigan’s poor 2 seasons actually galvanise the supporters and club and (I maybe wrong) increase average attendances; I'm sure someone can confirm that.

The key points for me are:
1. OSV
2. Youth development
3. Transparency with the fans
4. Commitment on the field short term (regardless of result)

Granted some of those are longer term, but let's hear about them.....PLEASE!

I don't think we have the ability to win SL, but a huge tilt at the cup should be a priority. We've seen that a lesser club can go on and win the cup with some unity, commitment and desire.

Some of the Negative Tendency originally said give it ten games (for about two nanoseconds until they backslided anyway...

)

The consensus of the Negative Tendency now is give it about one nanosecond, cos they have already decided.

The ever-sensible Cibaman says give it to July.

The 'Vark says give it to the end of the season, for equally sensible reasons, but action might be needed earlier if the Wigan debacle proves not to be a one off.

Bullseye is backing both sensible options.

Me? If the club IS contemplating any additions to or changes in the coaching staff - or if in the next few weeks it determines that it needs to - then by early summer I suggest we'd need to be making plans so anyone coming in would have time to start making THEIR plans for the 2010 team and campaign. This would be of particular importance this year given the number of players we have OOC at the end of the season. As Cibaman points out, if we left it till the end of the season, the decisions regarding signing/releasing OOC players will already have been made, and the opportunities for signings for 2010 will have reduced very significantly.

Cibaman's approach it is for me - although if anything I suggest July may be a bit late?

My emphasis re point 4. But yes, spot on IMO.

I'll add a fifth, no-brainer

5. Continuing efforts to secure an external financial backer

I'm sure the club is continually looking to resolve that fifth point!

Indeed.

Oi! You might at least have given me the by-line...!



Sorry...back to the thread now...

Over the last 16 years I have watched Bradford far more than any other club, usually as an impartial observer. I've been to most cup finals/GFs they've been in & fervently got behind them. I met MacN afew times while he was playing & he stood out from your average player. I say these things to try & show I am contributing fairly (despite my obsession with your lack of a scrum half, or the one currently in possession).
A few points from the above posts;
What happened on saturday was different to anything I have witnessed in my time watching. There was lack of/no heart or spirit. This indicates something drastically wrong in my book, usually the coach losing the dressing room. You need a performance this weekend to match the one against Leeds last season when you gave everything with a severely weakened team, to show me I'm wrong. I think possibly part of the problem is the p/ss poor support team MacN has at his disposal (but he chose 'em). I would MacN 2 more games like that, unless effort is shown he should be out.
Bulls are unlucky. Rubbish. 95% of SL/NL teams would swap with you. Unlucky is Wakefield with 10 players out, teams surviving on crowds of a few hundred having their stand burned down, Wire having Reardon, Johnson, Bridge etc almost permanently injured.
Bulls are rebuilding. It's easy to say but this should be an ongoing process, but it should. Since HP left your backs have struggled. How long do you want? A part from Deacon every one of your backs has been signed.
Bulls don't have a sugar daddy. Most clubs don't. get over it.
There are no proven coaches available. None in this country, possibly. No-one on here really knows, there would be plenty of unproven overseas candidates with top pedigrees as players &/or assistants desperate for a chance though.

IMO
If the players still respect Steve McNamara
If the players don't have some other reason to be against the club (rumours anyone?)
If the OSV is a realistic possibility
If the players can haul themselves out of the pit of despair despite the booing of a lot of the Bradford section on Saturday
If the next generation of first team players are really going to deliver on their potential
If the club can stay afloat financially despite the obviously shaky state of some sponsors and reduced crowds
and If at least some of us can keep going to games and cheering the lads on rather than sitting at home and firing the coach every week...

...Then
I don't think we really have anything to worry about.
I can't answer all these questions and neither can anyone who posts on here.
Saturday was an awful awful game, it's not the first time we've played like that and I'm sure it won't be the last. Can we improve 100% this weekend? I sure hope so.

One thing is certain though, clubs who sack the coaching team three games into the season seldom benefit.

You're right but this was neglected rather between 03 and 07. Young player development was neglected and proven home gown products allowed to leave when they could've been persuaded to stay e.g Peacock.



HP left in 2001 you know, after that we won 2 GFs, 1 CC and 3 WCCs without him. While he was gone Hape and Vainikolo formed one of the best centre, wing partnerships seen in SL with Les topping the try scoring charts. If that's struggling then I'd like to see what success was.

Perhaps it's fairer to say that since Hape, Vainikolo, Pryce and Withers left and weren't replaced with players of similar quality the backs have struggled.



I can think of six SL clubs that do. Most successful clubs do have wealthy backers. If we didn't have the financial millstone of Odsal it'd be easier to get over it but the club have that as a handicap too.

Apart from those, what have you won? Exactly. =whiteWas it really 2001? oops.

TBF I think when he referred to "HP", tigertot meant Hiestyn Paris.

It's the Waggle Dance, prolonged and ample consumption of which means he's slurring his words, that's all.

Nobody would want one night in that Paris!

It could be my other obsession with the talentless, Hilton Paris. So you were close.

Cullen's gone to Widnes, so he's out of the reckoning.

Thats not just unlucky though, is it? We let Johnson go precisely because of his being injury-prone, and Bridge for well-documented (if unconfirmed) reasons which his being dubbed "sick note" at Wire did little to dispel. OK, no such information on Reardon, and his taking his bat home with Bulls is not relevant in this argument.

I'd say though that situation reflects more on the Bulls making decsions re some players at least which with hindsight appear better than they may have done at the time? Given we got a few wrong too, at least that helps even things up a bit?

As for the general "unlucky" thread...I'm sure folk could list on here a shedload of examples. Give Mick a page or two on Ganson and the Clown alone...

I personally think we have had a bad run of things that have been outside the team (or the club's) control - and I'm NOT talking about injuries, since our bad luck there is part and parcel of the game. But, as I said somewhere else, we have to play the cards we have been dealt. Life's a bitch, and we have to live with it.



Wigan, Warrington, Saints, Huddersfield, Salford, Leeds (to a point - he's there if needed), Hull KR (to a point, IIRC?) all do. I suspect Cats, Quins and Celtic won't be allowed to struggle financially by the RFL - and if so, probably rightly IMO. Not sure of the "sugar daddy" or otherwise status of Celtic or Quins (now). My latest understanding is that Hull FC(other than the good fortune of the stadium), Cas (good luck to them - does any Bulls fan not like Cas?) and Wakey are the other clubs without a wealthy backer. From my recollection, anyway.

If your "most clubs..." observation was aimed at all pro RL clubs then dead right; if aimed at SL-level clubs, then I suggest rather less so?

In the interests of clarification re sugar daddies...?

Friends, Romans and tigertot, lend me your ears



Well afrter popular demand I will break my exile in the face of sensational on field performances against Wigan and to tell it like it is as always.

I originally said 10 games to Eddie but he has broken faith with me despite me promising the mother of all McBanana polls on my planned return after 10 games. For shame Eddie, for Shame

Some perspective has been lacking over recent weeks in your ramblings.

Alas some on here have been losing the plot and even had the temerity to suggest 'the end of McBanana'

Et tu Roofaldo, et tu...

I refuse to be seen as part of any tendency positive or negative. BUT someone has to come out against the rhetoric of the 'transitional season' being purported by the likes of FA and af. I don't want to support a club that is saying it is 'transtional' or 'building' after 3 games in. Why can't we be like McDermott and Morgan who have thrown the gauntlet down and already upset a few. The mentality at the club is defeatist and totally unacceptable IMO.

McBanana seems unable to turn around our fortunes - hes more like a droopy carrot at present, and too many are acting like apologists while in reality we are getting worse season on season. I will still give him the benefit of the doubt for 10 games though AS, beleive it or not, there have been [upositives[/u.

1. Defense was great in first two games - rewind the clock a week and hey presto we're a different team

2. Some players have improve out of sight from last season - Nero to name but one. People should have had more faith like me all along.



3. Dare I say it but Platt is coming on too.

4. Menzies looks a class act, Morrison great as usual.

5. I reckon we'll start squeezing teams out more when Lynch gets back. He for me is the heart and soul of the team and to do without is like Leeds without Peacock or Senfield.

6. The food at the ground is improving. Although I fear this could be a negative if Solomona is given free reign of Odsal on a matchday



Wigan IMO was just a bad day at the office. But the overall decline is my worry. FA and af spout on about how we can't expect to win the easy beat teams any more but you guys are the same ones saying our pack can match it with anyone in the league - so which is it to be??? IMO our pack with a fit Lynch is the best in the league and if our backs can get some confidence back we SHOULD be expecting to finish in the top 4/5. So if things don't change drastically after 10 games I will be calling for sliced Banana...

But give him time yet. The bad run so far COULD be explained by the interupted start plus a bit of simple bad luck (Wigan).

All in all I feel we STILL have the personnel in place to be succuessful, improving on last year. Whilst criticsing in these forums is OK we need to get behind the boys next week when they are out on the paddock against Dull. COME ON YOU BULLS

I was referring to all pro clubs. I have spent time at non-SL clubs getting changed under Batley's stand ducking under sheets of wet polythene stretched across the changing rooms to keep the leaks off you, 15 blokes sharing a cold shower (heee, it worr 'ard) etc. I would agree that those highlighted do have an advantage (bleedin' obvious), not that it guarantees you success. How Saints manage is beyond most.
The others I am not sure who is a sugar daddy, who is generous, who is suicidal. Hudds & HKR seem to be a model to follow. Steady growth on & off the pitch, but on paper no better squads than Bulls. Cats apart the others have (far?) worse squads.

Canis Canem Edit

Given how most on here have come to bury Macca and not to praise him (or anything else for that matter...), can't you persuade your mate MA to drop in and do a bit of mob-turning here too? His credentials in that regard are of course impeccable...

Quote ="tigertot"I was referring to all pro clubs. I have spent time at non-SL clubs getting changed under Batley's stand ducking under sheets of wet polythene stretched across the changing rooms to keep the leaks off you, 15 blokes sharing a cold shower (heee, it worr 'ard) etc.'" Wet polythene? Shower? You were lucky. In my day we stood in t'acid rain and it stripped the mud of us with a lair o skin, an we were grateful for it. www.phespirit.info/montypython/f ... iremen.htm

Quote ="tigertot"I was referring to all pro clubs. I have spent time at non-SL clubs getting changed under Batley's stand ducking under sheets of wet polythene stretched across the changing rooms to keep the leaks off you, 15 blokes sharing a cold shower (heee, it worr 'ard) etc.'" Wet polythene? Shower? You were lucky. In my day we stood in t'acid rain and it stripped the mud of us with a lair o skin, an we were grateful for it. www.phespirit.info/montypython/f ... iremen.htm

Sorry but i am lost. Who is MA as i am trying to work it out? Am i missing something here?

He is your alter ego Mystic Aardvark who alters debate by constantly arguing with himself



Boy are you paranoid.

P.S. I am not ME or FA or BadfordServiceCrew

Seemingly. Marcus Antonius. He from whom the Nero-worshipper was quoting... It wasn't a typo and its not you, don't worry - you instead play the role of the soothsayer telling Caesar to beware the Ides of March...



Edit - speaking of soothsayers, just had a terrible vision myself - one where you and the 'Vark had indeed morphed into one to form an MA on here...jeez that would be like forever listening to Smeagol/Gollum debating with himself on the road to Mordor...eeek!!!!!

. I think i need to brush up on my mythology it appears!