And the city centre will still have a big hole in it.

who shares at wire? cant say I've heard of it being a ground share before.

think asims hit nail on head with reasons for today comments re: groundshare. city trying to get a better deal on rent.

Liverpools reserves play their.

cheers that rings a bell. Didnt think it was an actual league team.

And it's that attitude and outlook that will ensure a self-fulfilling prophecy, an appalling attitude that seems endemic in this city.

Why shouldn't the two teams co-exist under one roof? If only because no agreement has been reached previously then we're just defeatist.

I can accept that City fans would not want to play at Odsal if it means exposed stands and a cut-up pitch. I can accept that Bulls fans would not want to play at VP if it means a pitch 10 metres too short and aggressive stewards. But the parochialism from both sets of supporters where people would not move elsewhere in Bradford just because it would mean change is no good for anyone.

For my part I go to watch both teams and I am currently more concerned with the possibility of one or both folding within the next 5 years. A joint venture seems absolutely logical, particularly one that is heavily supported by Bradford Council and the academic establishments. Whether this is in Odsal, Manningham or Forster Square and whether the seats are claret and amber or red, black and amber is really irrelevant.

If its happens, i hope the bulls make sure they at least equal rights to the stadium, considering the problems Wigan have been getting from Dave Whelan over the last year or so.

I'm going to ask on here, because you can't have any sort of conversation on a BCFC messageboard without being trounced for being a Bulls supporter.

Why on Earth do Bradford City fans think the council have one set of rules for the Bulls and another for City, favouring the Bulls? Is it true?

Well, it's make your mind up time.



The main bone of contention is the stadium situation, I'm sure people would be satisfied if the council bought Valley Parade then paid the club £4m to look after it, while charging a pittance of a rent, but they aint going to make that mistake again.

At the end of the day the council, and the city, gains nothing by having a successful RL team, our three times world champions would probably get plenty of blank expressions if the name was put to someone as close as Sheffield. It's time Bradford Council sacked off any sort of link to the Bulls (most of the fans aren't from Bradford anyway), forgot about any silly sporting village where they would be main beneficiaries, and start giving some financial support to the team playing football, success in which could put Bradford on the sporting map.

I'd say there's plenty to be gained from a successful RL team! RL's a growing sport, whether people agree or not, and you are indeed right about the fact not many people outside the M62 corridor would know who the Bradford Bulls are. However, there is beneficiaries to the OSV, wasn't it being touted as a training village for 2012 athletes competing in the Olympics one time?

Bradford is on the sporting map FWIW, they have one of the most successful rugby teams in recent times, as well as a sleeping giant of a football side. Bringing them both together, in state of the art facilities (if we ever see them), could do wonders for both clubs.

It certainly looks as if the club are trying to influence Gibb. But what if these noises fail to have the desired effect? City can't afford £1m a year to rent their ground. Gibb's hardly going to waive that agreement. The best City can hope for is a reduction, they will still be left with a large bill to use their own stadium. Unlike the Bulls who would only be faced with a large bill if they left Odsal!



History suggests that will be the case, while many of the key stakholders seem now to agree that "something needs to be done with Odsal" there are no plans yet drawn up and nobody's offered to put their hands in their pocket. The OSV is a long way off yet! I think stating that something could be agreed and built by 2011 is very optimistic indeed. However it's the only hope for the club given that they can't leave Odsal without incurring a massive bill from the council and wouldn't be able to contribute anything toward City's rent costs to Gibb.



Well said. I think parochial viewpoints need to be put aside by fans of both clubs. What's best for both? If that's us both staying where we are or sharing Odsal or VP I'm happy to choose the option that safeguards my club, whatever it is. The stakes are too high for arguments about the colours of the seats!

All gubbins to try and make the scheme seem worthwhile, now they have given up on that and are trying to link the city's main team into it to try and give it credibility.


Indeed, the Bulls got as high as they can possibly go in their chosen sport, but the latent interest for RL in the city still isn't really there, indeed the Bulls are once again having to tap into Dewsbury, Halifax and the like to try and arrest the slump in support and interest.


City aren't a sleeping giant, we've never been a giant and circumstance (ie the existence of Park Avenue) has prevented it in the past, however now is the time for Bradford Council to help make things happen for the city's top club in it's top sport, instead of pandering to a noisy minority, a large number of whom have no stake in the city as it is.

You've surpassed yourself there!

Indeed. For what it's worth, having lived in London for five years I can tell you that most people even vaguely interested in sport know that the rugby team in Bradford is callled the Bulls, and further more is about the only thing they know that the city has going for it other than curry. Chomp chomp chomp.

In six years in Manchester my Bulls shirt (now burnt) was only ever identified by people who thought it was a basketball or ice hockey team.

Maybe when half the BBC staff decamp from London the recognition rate will improve.

Not quite how it happened. But you are right - the council won't do that again. Did City flog their ground for a good price or was it to avoid foreclosure on a loan?



OSV will only work if they are one of many beneficiaries - most unblinkered people recognise that.



I thought TV rights at premiership level were a minimum of £20m+ per year as well as a parachute payment. Was that not enough?



Did City not try that success thing a few years back? Different people at the helm of course. How did that turn out?

Long term, quite well if harnessed properly, after all it has led to a position where, despite being in the bottom tier of professional football, a higher average attendance than the top flight RL counterparts is still achieved.

I am a Bradfordian, living in Wibsey and working locally too. I followed NOrthern /Bulls home and away between 1990 and last year, and was a season ticket holder pre 1990 at City. I am now a City season ticket holder again. I was at Valley Parade as an 8 year old on May 11th 1985, and I hold both teams in high esteem.
the current talk is just that. City's former chairman bought VP for 2.5million when the club first went into admin. It was financed by the pension funds of the company he owns, flamingo land and Pleasure island! Now City pay 1m per year in rent, and the current Chairmen want to buy the stadium back for the club. Gordon Gibb will not entertain selling it, or even negotiating about it as he is on a big earner (5years @1m=5m, when he paid 2.5m for it). this talk from mark lawn is simply to try and make him come to the table.
Also, it helps the bulls get wider support for the OSV project.

I have fallen out of love a little with the BUlls over recent years. I dont regard myself as a glory supporter, but I just felt that my hard earned money was being misspent, so I dont go as much. at the same time City offered cheap season tickets and my sons wanted to go see football. They ahd been BUlls fans, and stil are via sky TV, but the costs dont add up. next season, I have got seats for me and my two sons for £99. To sit at Odsal, that would get me 2 matches, not 22!!

I willnot slag BUlls off or city. Too many people have short memories and the histories of both clubs has involved too many financial problems. If the clubs both end up at Odsal, or VP or if they stay separate then as a city they need to exist.
Bradford needs successful sporting role models. if the healthy living, active lifestyle is to be promoted then Bulls and City are key. If that means city leaving VP, then so be it. the anger should be directed at Gordon Gibb, not Bulls fans. Likewise, if Bulls leave Odsal, Hood is not to blame, Caisley is. He was on a good thing with the council and now the operating costs of the whole at the top of manchester road are crippling the clubs on field development!

neither City or BUlls will do anything to deliberately jeopardise their club. the opposite is true, they are doing this to survive.

COYB
CTID

I'm not sure Caisley had much option over Odsal when he was in charge. The council were clearly desperate to end the 1986 agreement as it was costing them a fortune. It was Hobson's choice. Either move back to Odsal and have the money to make some improvements and gamble on the Tesco groundshare coming through or move in at VP where the club had been losing money and fans.

City's attendances are inflated by their season ticket deal which is a bargain for their fans. However, given that the club can't afford to pay £1m rent a year do you think this will affect that deal? Can the club continue to offer such value for money?

If they can't I bet City's attendances would look quite a bit lower than they are now and probably slip below the level at the Bulls.

The rent (currently) is around £350k a year, the £1m figure that has suddenly started to be banded around includes all overheads (bills etc) which, until recently, the club has publicised was all taken care of by renting out office space in the business centre etc.

As I said above this all reeks of posturing to put some pressure on Gibb because the rent figure is up for negotiation, I don't think he is doing anything wrong to be fair.

As a comparison Huddersfield Town paid around £650k rent to play in the Galpharm a couple of years ago, this may have included everything in terms of overheads (I'm not sure on that), but City certainly wouldn't be able to save a million a year by leaving VP, not to mention the penalty clauses that would be payable.

A football team i can understand but this would be innovative to say the least

They could have a special area on the goalline for people that had scored three tries or less (and yes I know it should be fewer)

Sorry if a link has been posted that I've missed, but if not;

[url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/b/bradford_city/7886405.stmBulls / Bantams groundshare from the BBC website[/url

[url=http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/sport/4118392.Is_it_time_to_get_it_together_/T&A version[/url

Seems unlikely to me, always worth considering, but ultimately unlikely.