I understand what your saying but i do share a lot of feelings with Asim here as well, what has happened at VP gives it an almost supernatural history, its not like a house fire where someone died hanging up their clothes or doing their washing, people have died literally supporting their team, died doing something that they loved. When people have lost their lives doing something so poignant on such a wonderful day that turned into a nightmare the ground becomes almost sacred itself. Ive never taken moving away from VP lightly, but i believe it could be done under certain circumstances. It sounds a bit daft but think of 11/11, nobody thinks 'wow what a depressing day, full of war and bloodshed, we might as well forget about it', people cling onto these things, and likewise people cling onto VP, its a memorial to what happened.

Here we go again......

For what its worth, for VP to be a realistic alternative for me personally would take some convincing, baring in mind that I attended every game we had there and I dont live in Bradford anymore so the extra travelling into the city was/is a right pain, but that would not stop me, what could make the whole thing too depressing in the long term is feeling like unwanted tennents.

We could end up feeling like we didnt have a "home" ground, Im taking about making VP half owned by the Bulls, changing the seats to have our colours as well, with Bulls written in the colour scheme like at Odsal - stuff like that. Little things that I suspect could make a big differnce to feeling like we belonged. But why would City need to agree to that?

And as a (relatively unimportant) aside, does anyone know if the RFL will have a problem with the dimensions of VP not being very close to the prefered maximum in their rules? I know they didnt before, (and I know that Odsal isnt perfect), but that was only temporary, would thier thinking be different on a permanent basis? They list maximum dimensions as prefered but no minimum in the laws.

Ideal = 100m plus two minimum 6m in-goals x 68m
VP = 103 x 64

If we moved to valley parade i do think a lot of away support would dwindle after what happened last time. The club did everything they could, but the stewards were out of order one time as i was sat with the saints fans.

Personally i didn't like it at Valley Parade, it isn't the same - around odsal you can walk around and you can mix and you don't have to be in the same stand, or be near someone to see them etc. You have the tent too - and the rugby at odsal is about having your different foods etc and i would guess the new stadium would have facilities for that - you haven't a chance of that at Valley Parade. I'd watch Bradford - i always will but i wouldn't be happy. And Sutcliffe has lost a fair few votes within my area and i'm sure more.

I'm sure he'd be happy to back a realistic and affordable proposal, ie not the current one.

I was sat next to Gerry in the FC on Friday afternoon. We had a laugh about him bopping to the Who's 'Wont Get Fooled Again'. I left politics out of it, even though there were lots of questions I would have liked to have asked him, but I thought give the bloke a rest; I'd have been pi ssed off if he had started grilling me about my job. We shook hands when I left & wished each other merry xmas. I'm surprised he was still standing by night time. He probably said no comment as it is an almost impossible situation & cannot afford to be ruled by his heart. And I have never voted for him

vp is ok as a footy ground, i attended every home game when last there,but for me i would like to stay at odsal.not only because it's near but the problems we had getting to & from the stadium,the friday night games were horrendous plus walking back to your car only to find it had been either vandalised or broken in to, and on two occations myself & family verbally abused.A community ground would be a viable option if suitable agreement on all sides could be reached, i'm sure funding could be found from sales of grounds and private investment.

The JCT 600 Stadium?

It will be slap bang in the middle of the city park and the Westfield shopping centre, and will be officially opened in the year Bradford is European City of Culture, before hosting that years Commonwealth Games.

Access will be made easy by the new combined central railway station, or by people hitching a ride on the back of one of the thousands of flying pigs.

have you got a crystal ball

As an away fan, I would say Valley Parade is one of the poorest grounds to visit. Difficult to get to, difficult to park, poor view and effectively herded into an area regardless of where you wanted to go or not.

Odsal, is the complete opposite of this and as you say the home support wouldn't alter greatly, the away support would really suffer.

I dont know how sutcliffe managed to scrape in at the last local elections as quite alot around here voted bnp, bnp got into queensbury etc and thought that would be tory if owt.
Landlord of where we have our club dos and meetings is chairman of bradford bnp, next time im in im gonna ask him his views on the osv and see if he can tell me owt that we dont get to here about.

I disagree with this point. A lot of home fans put up with VP because it was a temporary measure and we still dropped a lot of fans that even now we are struggling to get back. I think a proposed move to VP could well see our franchise going to South Wales.

It was never just the stewards. It was the location more than anything else. One of the other things which came up again and again was that people did not like the cramped seating and the fact that the Bulls were never allowed to brand the stadium so we were only ever visitors.

interviewed over a hundred Bulls fans when we were there as part of the BISA survey and less than 4% of people I asked said they were happy to stay at VP. A worryingly large percent said they'd stop going to matches if the move became permanent.
The club simply could not survive a move to Valley Parade.
If the council will not develop Odsal then we have no real alternative but to abandon the dream and do as other clubs have done and look for a flat site to develop with the help of sponsorship.

Bradford council are to local government what Basil Faulty was to the leisure industry.

If so many people had really voted bnp then surely they would have been voted in!

The figures are widely published!

Very few bnp coucillors ever attend council meetings and from what I've read about them would be lucky to find their own with both hands and an atlas.

why should they have been voted in just cos loads voted for them, i know the majority of people where i live voted bnp, but areas around me ie horsfall area, st abbs voted labour, majority in woodside voted labour but loads voted bnp, 3000 people could vote bnp but if 3001 voted labour then labour get in, but if that 1 extra person voted bnp then they would get in.

bnp are very up and down around here, they managed to get voted in wibsey, but then got voted straight out etc. a few years back.

Today's Sadler Express makes for interesting reading. Seems that the BCFC Supporters Trust have shoved their oar in to the debate.

What a great way to ensure closer links and friendship between the two clubs



If VP is ever to house both the Bulls and City the BCFC supporters trust would do well to keep their traps shut IMO. Their interference in the OSV decision making is only likely to give Bulls fans a stick to beat BCFC with and sour relations between both sets of fans.

My grandfather supported City for 50+ years and died at VP on his 70th birthday and probably the happiest day in his lifetime of supporting the club he loved. For me it will always be his resting place and spiritual home. That may make no sense to you but it does to me and a fair few fellow fans who went through what happened in 1985.

It may seem illogical but it is how it is.

Similarly a great many people have had their ashes scattered at Odsal and see that as their final resting place too.

Emotions will run high for fans of the Bulls and City if either club had to move from their current home.

I always have trouble with people who spout off and claim to speak for the majority. City's various supporters clubs/trusts have not been the best.

To be honest relations between the two clubs were fine until the vitriol over moving to VP happened. Everything from having to sit, no place for bouncy castles, cars being damaged, heavy handed stewarding and the "local residents" were crucified by Bulls fans and City fans took umbrage.

It's been a while but those bridges have never been repaired and I simply can't see them getting any better with some of entrenched attitudes on both sides.

I've been going to both VP and Odsal for years. Had my car damaged once at VP in that time. I've had my car vandalised the same amount of times at my own house.

VP is easier for me to get to than Odsal, and I like the fact that VP is covered for when it lashes it down, and the sound carries when the crowd make a noise. Anyone who was there at VP when City lost to Accrington would know what I mean. However, I like Odsal when it's a nice day, it's a smashing place to be.

I was involved in the BISA campaign to get Bulls back to Odsal, mainly because I believed that was it's psiritual home, not because I didn't like VP. People go on about over handed stewards, but they were doing their job (i.e. inforcing the fact that you are not allowed to stand in an all seater stadium). Has anyone tried standing on a yellow section at Odsal? That is a no-no. One thing that got me was the amount of people who would not watch Bulls at VP simply because it was not on tehir doorstep at Odsal. These people would have no qualms at watching Bulls in Wigan, Hull, London etc, but would not go to VP, because they would have to get a bus. Using the area is an excuse.

I believe that due to the history involved at Odsal and VP for Bulls and City respectively, the best option for the clubs to share a stadium would be to have a purpose built one. It hasn't effected clubs such as Wigan RLFC and Wigan Athletic, or Hull FC and Hull City. Apart from Warriors, it has boosted the other teams.

Are you getting a bit mixed up here or is it me?
The bnp have never had an MP elected, ever, at all. They won't be either. The labour party could put a small pile of bricks up for the seat in Bradford South and it would get more votes than the bnp. Surely nobody wants nazis in parliament!!!

The bnp councillor in the area was elected by a small margin in a particularly low turn-out.

Anyway, all that is off topic. Most MPs just try make the right noises at election time to keep their seats.

Personally from what you've said, I've never darken your landlord's door again never mind attempt to engage him in conversation.

Are you saying that you'd consider voting BNP *if* he did support the OSV ??

Where have i said id consider voting bnp?
I said the landlord of our clubhouse is the chairman of bradford branch of bnp, he doesnt force his views on you, if you didnt know he was bnp you would never guess it.
One of our assistant coaches is black british and he has no qualms about being in there, bnp is no longer hardline, some of the peopel who back them can be but if bnp councillor had hardline views then they wouldnt be allowed to say owt.
Halifax/queensbury/thornhill/dewsbury all have bnp councillors in the local areas.
I do not vote anyone cos they all speak absolute rubbish and dont believe any of them, but alot of people in wibsey area did vote for them.

no longer hardline?
“I am well aware that the orthodox opinion is that six million Jews were gassed and cremated or turned into lampshades. Orthodox opinion also once held that the earth is flat…I have reached the conclusion that the ‘extermination’ tale is a mixture of Allied wartime propaganda, extremely profitable lie, and latter day witch-hysteria.” Nick Griffin, BNP leader.
That's their [ileader[/i How hardline do you want them?!?!

The good news is that it might not matter for Bradford for much longer...
[urlhttp://www.searchlightmagazine.com/index.php?link=template&story=214[/url

My apologies to the moderators for the political link but I think it's appropriate given the direction of the debate.