He doesn't in this case but underneath it he makes a valid point.

Simply running the business better might bring in a few quid more but in most cases it's not going to be enough without an owner subsidising it.

Have they completely explored the Bulls branded baby bib market though?

Pop concerts anyone?

Can't we have an option: 'someone with as much money as a Degsy or Koucash, but not a complete tool'?

No, we don't need to get someone to put money in, that would be hype, what we need is to "attract further investment".

And we don't need to get more cash in, what we need to do is "generate further revenue streams".

I get it now. Sorry, sorry, I have been successful in acquiring a measure of understanding at this moment in time.

How am I doing?

Nothing hyperbolic about it. It's true there's been some bolics in this thread, but not from me.

Think it goes with the territory. You;d have to be a bit of a tool to invest in RL.

Just been on the Giants board and some people are criticising Ken Davy. A serious dose of reality is required.

You've asked for it, and here it is: no income streams etc, just plain take the whatsit, from the Dewsbury Ostriches website:

[i2010 was a season to forget. We had no chance of emulating the performances of our near neighbours and needed to return to the lower division. Sadly, although the coach did his absolute best to give us what we wanted, two other teams apparently wanted it more. A financially draining experience.

2011, with the season just finished we were once more denied our objective. We drilled into the players and staff the necessity of playing in the lower division. Unfortunately, too many reverted to type and tried to win games we should have lost. These people were weeded out and we finished in our desired relegation spot. Then the RFL poked their noses in and gave us an unwanted repreive. Another season in the highest division may result in the demise of our club. We can never match the achievments of our neighbours who have fans able to appreciate their board of directors, their coach and their players.

We hope, by publishing this website, we can drag our fans heads out of the sand and make them see the real life situation at our club.[/i

The RFL seem to want two models of funding and development: sugar daddies, as discussed on this thread, and Academy Daddies, as we appear to have now. My vote is therefore for the Academy Daddy and home bred success

I guess from the Sugar Daddy point of view if you put in the millions and a few men and their dogs turn up, it is very different from splashing the cash then getting 10,000 fans through the gate to limit the cash drain.
But the Bulls never attracted a big money backer when we were bringing home the trophies and gates over 10k, so the chances of finding one after an embarrassing weekend in Cumbria must be very low.

Sorry you're right. No cake and eating it.... But I'll stick with Yes.

There is, but it's never that black and white. As a possibly bad example, Southbank Bradford appears to be an attempt to use what we have to bring another income into the club.

If schemes like these successfully get off the ground then the subsidy from the owners can be reduced meaning the impact from them walking away isn't as devastating as a Davy dropping the Giants scenario.

Nail on head for me

Both our current owner & previous owner have tried to "sweat" the asset that is the Southbank. It hasn't worked yet. I'm sure the owners before that also tried but without quite as much advertising.

The bottom line is that our last 3 owners aren't mugs. They're all successful in business in their own fields and none of them have been multimillionaires. There is no way, without massive corporate backing (Catalans) or massive crowds (Leeds) to make money at this sport. The best you can hope for is cost-neutral.

Maybe not in this thread but you certainly have previous for asserting your opinion as stone cold fact.

This was one of yours from less than a month ago:



This was despite Leigh having already turned over Salford in the middle 8's.

FA is the physical embodiment of stone cold fact. I have heard the words "I am completely fact" directly from his own lips.

We should buy him a t-shirt with it on.

If I have an opinion about promotion (or anything) in the future, how can anyone mistake that as a "fact"? I may be very certain something will happen, but unless you don't understand how the arrow of time works, then you can't really mistake it for "fact". I don't claim psychic powers.



Except that I was talking about the route of getting to the MPG and then WINNING it. I haven't changed that view. I did though also say, several times, since LAST season, that the only realistic if unlikely possibility of promotion was finishing 3rd, i.e. not via the MPG. Maybe you overlooked that in your research.

This was all my OPINION, and not statements of fact, in case you're wondering, the giveaway is that I was talking about future events that hadn't happened yet.

First of all, I'm delighted that Leigh have done it, but they have done it by repeated wins against SL clubs, and if you want to know then I will frankly admit that I didn't think that could be done. But it wasn't quite the point, they have done it via the automatic route I suggested, albeit done it better than I thought was achievable to boot. Kudos to them.

The route to SL that I had suggested was to beat the Championship clubs plus one SL club, and hope other results conspired against that SL club. If you beat everybody, nobody can argue with that, you don't need to rely on any other club SL or otherwise. And that's a fact.

If you are up for a quick recap, this started in the discussion about who played who in the Super 8 qualifiers. Some felt it was better to finish 2nd and maybe even just finish in the top 4, and that finishing top was less advantageous. I argued (and produced my customary spreadsheet) showing how finishing top does give you a decided advantage in home and away fixtures and so it made the regular season very important, and not a mere warm up for the business end, as some seemed to argue, and that therefore the Bulls should strive to finish top, and go for the 3rd spot. We may have been a bit short on striving though.

No you weren't. I didn't edit your post or only quote part of it. That was the full post.

You made no mention of MPG or Auto promotion, you simply stated that "There is no chance of a SL team being relegated under the current "promotion" smoke and mirrors." which was wrong.

Then followed that up with "The system guarantees no relegation." which has, again, been proven wrong.

Anyway, I am not here to argue and I think the Bradford fans have been very complimentary of Leigh in the past few weeks which is appreciated.

However you in particular seem quick to shoot down the opinions of other posters and assert your own opinion as a better one. And maybe you weren't claiming 'fact' but you did 'guarantee' that nobody would be relegated...

In this case it would be nice if you could admit that your 'opinion' has turned out to be utter bollox

OK. I imagined all my posts on the subject, Dallas-shower style. Happy now? It never happened, and everyone who read them and has discussed them is delusional cos it was just a figment of their imagination. That OK?







If I do, it's only for their own good. It hurts me more than it hurts them, and they'll thank me for it one day


It is, though. Fact. I can't help it.


You are Nigel Wood and I claim my £5

Seriously though we all know (well, most of us) that Leigh going up this year will be vaunted as a vindication of the present system, despite it being grossly unfair, and completely loaded against the Championship sides. But, if you think that's utter bollox, it is indeed your right to be deluded. You earned it when your particular sperm hit the mark, but that didn't make it a fair competition for the 500 million losers, did it?

Perhaps the system is vindicated. We would have been promoted last year but for a brain fart from Jimmy with his team selection in the MPG and Leigh have been promoted this year.

My fundamental objection to it was that a team with a million or so less to play with, playing all season at a lower level, could not hope to compete with a SL team in the intensity of the MPG.

I know that at least in theory the salary cap restriction has now gone - but in practice unless someone puts in the difference between SL income and Championship income, there remains a huge imbalance.

If a Championship team is good enough to finish top of its pile then the time has come for at least one automatic promotion spot. Playoffs for a potential second if you like, but the Championship winner deserves to go up, and SL bottom to go down, full stop.

During the time we've had this system the standard of the Championship has markedly increased but it isn't SL. The top C. team deserves to go up, and then have the chance to prepare and upgrade for a crack at SL. The old objection, that they would be doomed to "yoyo" and hopelessly uncompetitive at SL level has been seriously holed by the exploits of Leigh, but even if they were, the performances of some SL clubs have not been awe-inspiring and the jeopardy of a banker relegation spot might perk that league up.

One of the original objectives of this system was to bridge the massive gap that existed between the 2 leagues after so many years of the franchise system. That is happening and so the strategy is working. The next step in the strategy surely is to go to 1U1D, perhaps if a second Championship club wins automatic promotion in the 8's in the next season or so. The biggest issue for me with the current system and this applies to Mcbbbs relegation topic too, is that the standard of refereeing needs to be improved to provide a level playing field between the 2 leagues.

Whilst you are correct in a perfect worl in the real world a team can't survive in SL without somebody putting a huge wedge in.

That is looking increasingly to be the case, at least if you want to be a proper player in the league and not just another Wakey.

The Leigh experience has shown that is actually possible, with solid, and significant, financial backing. It maybe also crystallises in the mind whether or not we'd really [iwant[/i to go up without something similar?

Leigh still have to make it stick, of course, and not come straight back down, and for the good of RL as a whole we have to hope they can. It does also, as mentioned above, lead to the conclusion that straight P&R would work,[i if all[/i clubs at our level were generally better funded.

Well, you can, at the moment, because of the smoke and mirrors "promotion" system. Leigh have done the magnificent this year, sure, but even so, 11 out of 12 SL clubs have survived, and I think until we have automatic promotion all 12 will invariably survive even if it ends up being by winning the MPG.