The club are sending out 10 raffle tickets out for people to sell, if you wan't to help the club then sell these (or buy them yourself) and if they go easy ask for some more!


Good idea from the club imo.

I would say you are having a go. It is highly unlikely right throughout the clubs history any fans started to going when the team were playing poor. If some of these fans then decide that their money is better spent elsewhere that is their call. If they have put their money in to the club then they have a right to an opinion, it is up to the club to have a review of the last 3 - 4 years to sort themselves from top to bottom.
It starts from the top and filters down just like any workplace. Hood might have overseen the financial stability but he needs to be tougher, McNamara gets credit for the junior system. I suppose he deserves a bit of credit but that is then an injustice to the junior coaches and scouts who go and find these players and then develop them ready for first team.

I know a couple of people who started going last season.

Thought I might get a response like that. I am sure there are a few, but I am sure you get what I was saying.

Personally I was lucky enough to start going in home and away in 1985 (part time fan for a few years before) due to my dad being a lifelong fan, I then spent the next few years attending school in Halifax getting hammered by my mates while they were enjoying trips to Wembley.

I have being there during the good and bad times and will continue to do so. We are poor and we will not improve under Steve this year. Gardening leave for the rest of his contract a la Phil Brown, lets put a bit of pride back in to it and build for next year.

The wife is fully aware that should the Euro Millions come in I will be buying the club!

As Mark (Bully Boxer) said, I'd gladly offer my time and skills to the club. I'm a web developer, and have offered my services before.. but never heard anything back.

Well then you would be stupid beyond belief, given that I specifically spelled out that I wasn't. Do you have a problem with reading?


Utter balderdash, as people start (and stop) going for all sorts of reasons, plus you can't sensibly stick a homogeneous tag like "when the team were playing poor", as if it plays just the same, all the time, week in week out, home and away, cup and league. Even in the bad times, there have been plenty of enjoyable days, so your claim is really pretty meaningless, as well as wrong.


Well, yes, that is what I said, except that they aren't "fans" any more. They would be "ex fans". If you can understand why. If not, PM me and I'll explain.


Anyone has a right to an opinion, don't they? Cash contributions weren't required last I heard.


Is it? Thanks for that insight. And there was me thinking it was up to the Grimsby Over-80s Nudist Trampoline Team.

Er...that is precisely what they have done. Except they had had to do it several years ago. And have to keep doing it every year.

That is precisely why the club is still here, and did not fold shortly after the end of the Caisley era, when is was racing into a financial abyss of expenditure far exceeding income and a massive court case threatening oblivion.

That is precisely why the club does not have the staff resources, including highly-paid executives and coaches, that the monied clubs can afford. It has to live within its means, unlike numerous of our competitors.

That is precisely why the club is not spending the salary cap and has such a lean squad, and is investing as far as possible in the future (e.g the new training base)

What "sorting out from top to bottom" would you propose? What is wrong, and what wants fixing? Certainly not junior development? They canot be accused of doing everything wrong? Given that the club manages with a small team of hard-working managers and staff, who surely won't be doing it just for the money, what would you do?

Unfortunately, too few fans and "fans" either appreciate or choose to appreciate the serious financial constraints within which the club now has to operate, in a competition where the majority of the clubs now have a wealthy owner bankrolling them (or in the case of Leeds, did so historically when it mattered).

The extent to which this influences the on-field performances is far from clear, although there must be an effect. Equally, some other clubs with limited resources overperform when we do not. Only the history books will record what really went on and goes on.

As I have said a number of times, be careful what you wish for.

So a new training base instead of a team? Mmmmm...

Do they ever use it one wonders?

I am not wishing for anything apart from the club that I follow to operate at a decent level. I do not expect us to win trophies every year... But I do expect results to be better than they are.
The club is going downhill still, the teams results are there for all to see... I know the financial constraints have a bearing on matters but the team will have no confidence and a change may just give us a boost. We are not sacking a coach who has 2 years on a contract to run, it is a matter of months and we should try something.
I have stated previously that there are a number of good things happened over the years, the same things you point out - finance and youth development.
The training base will be fantastic once we can use the actual training pitch...

My argument had nothing to do with money. I just want to know that Peter Hood is putting pressure on the people below saying that current performances are not acceptable - Injuries and salary cap are not the cause of half d efforts that appear from some players (not all players and not all of the time)

Further poor perfomances affect crowds coming through the gate, sponsors renewing deals, hospitality etc. All are a loss of revenue which affect future budgets

That is fact and all I am trying to say

Bulls till I die

They explained at the Fans' Forum that they had chosen to invest in the training facilities and this was at the expense of not spending the full salary cap this year. Investment in the future.

If a few more folk turned up at Odsal, they would have the funds to do both. Fewer turning up means less to spend on players means fewer turning up...

The new facility is excellent. Will make a lot of difference going forward IMO.

I think you likely miss one of the main reasons for the investment: its a BIG draw card for attracting juniors in the face of the stiff competition from the usual suspects. The old facilities at Woodhouse Grove were apparently OK, but not Bulls-dedicated. But, more to the point, were miles away from where most juniors have to travel from. Total pain for most juniors and part-timers The new facility is ideally situated for the motorway network and for the huge RL hinterland of South Bradford and southern West Yorkshire. And its in a lovely edge-of country setting to boot. It is pretty impressive. And a big clincher when trying to attract new talent like Liam McAvoy from Cumbria. Bulls cannot match the moneybags clubs in attracting juniors, but they CAN now give them the best training and development facilities - and one of the best programmes - in the competition.

Much of this season has been spent moving in and getting the place built and sorted, so it'll be next season sees the full benefits.

And of course it has to be a big plus for the first team to have such a good all-in-one facility, and not that far from the stadium.

I was a bit unsure as to the priorities when Hood first said about it at the forum; having seen the place, and talked to the junior development team (who are incredibly positive about the advantage it now gives us) I'm convinced it was a necessary and very sound investment for the future. Maybe some others concerned about the future direction - when we will need to rely predominantly on home-developed players - would feel a little less concerned if they could see for themselves positives like this.

ps for Bully Boy - I have been assured that we have been using the new training pitch for some weeks now, and its just fine.

Thats good to hear...

The problem is that people who are upset at the team tend to lash out, and very commonly want "everything" changing, everyone from chairman to most junior coach sacking, and a complete change of personnel to the current Origin squads.

Despite the sorry state of first team playing affairs, the fact (for those who have an interest in it) is that Hood & Co. have (a) worked like trojans to save the club and (b) done (and continue to do) a huge amount of good work - on any view- such as the new training facility.

One thing the Bulls seem to do very badly indeed is communication with the fans. It is grossly unfair that they should be slagged for the setting up of the brilliant new training facility, when the facts as explained above should surely merit applause rather than complaint; but then again why don't all the fans already know, from some loud blowing of own trumpet, exactly what we have done and are doing and why in relation to the new facility?

And its hardly just that, despite promises in fans forums etc really the fans are largely kept very much in the dark, about most things, and have to rely on the occasional one line quote in the T&A, or identikit-change-the-date banal paragraphs, about most subjects. The current one of course being the new coach situation, and I don't suggest we should give away trade secrets or whatever, it's just that total silence leads to discontent and increases that mushroom feeling.

There is communication breakdown by club, and a 'can't be arrsed to check facts before whingeing' mentality by some fans.

The "state of the art training facility" was built 10 years ago as a classroom block. It was known as K block of the old Tong school!

the pitch is not the greatest as it is on what was the main building of the old Tong school site, and about 12 months ago was rubble. It appears uneven and in need of bedding in. Much of the bulls on field training is done on the School pitches at another part of the campus.

i would have happily had another player or two in exchange for this!!!

Would you prefer a 150 year old mill? Or sharing public gyms? Or having to trek all over the place for different things? Or the expense of a complete new build? So what if its in a ten year old building? Where a load of work has been done on converting our ground floor into what - as others from other clubs have said - is now probably the best such facility in the competition? And where the upstairs has been converted into the offices for Integrated Bradford - they have no problem in it being a newish big ex-classroom block.

At least I have had the opportunity to go round the place and report what I saw first-hand.

You might have got a player or two more this year, but you'd likely get far less junior talent for the future. If you were a junior living in say Wakefield or Cleckheaton would you (or, more likely, your parents) fancy the trek to Apperley Bridge out of hours on a regular basis? And to a facility that the Bulls used but was not their own and tailored to their own requirements?

Sorry, but that attitude just comes across to me as the same short-sightedness that got the club into the situation when Caisley left and we had no money AND sod all left of the junior development.

I think the money has been better spent developing the infrastructure to take the club forward. Surely we'd all agree that it's better to have a few years of pain now for sustained success in the future, especially if the majority of the talent that will take us forward comes from home grown talent?

Look at Whino's - would they have had the success they've had if they hadn't been forced to develop their youth structure after relying on big named player after big named player and ending up skint? Though it ires me to say it, they have to be the blueprint to follow for the majority of teams as the money to buy players or pay for a team of superstars simply isn't available. We're lucky in that we still have decent sized crowds compared to many in SL so can invest in this type of project.

As I've said before - the training ground is where the majority of players spend their working days, with the exception of 80 minutes a week. If we're looking to bring players in either at junior or senior level and we can offer them a working environment that is better than our competitors it will work in our favour. Look at Leeds Utd and the number of players who cite the training facilities at Thorpe Arch as one of the major influences when it comes to signing for the club.

Adey,

It is about balance. I understand and mostly agree with your argument, but as i see the outdoor facilities every day, and have been in the building, I would rather have a slightly less brilliant facility (the indoor ones at least) and one or two better players using it.

Attracting young players to a decent location, (Its lovely here today, looking over the valley to Pudsey,) is one thing, but we need to show the kids a pathway to success. At the moment it is one step forward, and two back. the priority is what goes on on the pitch for the first team. If we keep losing supporters, then sponsors, then the training ground will be the first thing to go! fans and sponsors dont want a great youth team and a poor first team. they want a successful club. and if we keep being dubbed as in financial strife, then large corporates wont want anything to do with us.

the club needs to be positive, proactive and speak to the people more. the "no news is good news" argument does not wash. either witn the walk up fans, or the large businesses using the corporate facilities.

Can see your POV obvioulsy, and yes its all about balance.

But its surely a lot lot cheaper to bring your own youngsters through to the first team than to go buy in from outside? After all, our overseas quota is full and who realistically might we have brought in this year? A winger and a centre would be top of the list I guess...what British players of suitable quality/cost combination realistically might have been available? And would it have been worth it to compromise the future, since I don't think there was any "cheaper" option, just to stay at Woodhouse Grove - and those Bulls guys we saw seemed to think that was a defo no-no, for whatever reason.

Maybe we could have signed a couple more journeymen - but that is what the club has been accused of too much over recent years, and the reason we had to sign them was stated by Macca and Medders at the forum before last as being precisely because we did not then have the youth development pipeline.

As you say, its all down to balance. When we were sat in 4th this discussion was not taking place. Now we are languishing back in 8th it inevitably is. We seem to have had bad luck yet again with injuries - how much of our salary cap was sat in the stand until recently, again? - but there does seem to be something else too, as last year. Everything I hear suggests to me that without the investment in the future made this year the future would have been very significantly compromised. But only the history books will be able to say whether the club got the balance right, or whether they did not?

In my opinion the new training facilities will be hugely beneficial to the Bulls in the long term. The club tried buying a successful team on dodgy foundations, that's why we are where we are now. The club are in the process of trying to build success that is sustainable and created from ground up, and unfortunately that takes time which is something that a few supporters seem unwilling to tolorate.

Since the start of BullBuilder I have been in the priviledged position of being able to speak to various personel at the club, and they are just as passionate about rebuilding a successful team as any fan, it's just that they have to deal with the realities of making it happen. I have also visited the new training facility and whilst it may have once been a classroom block it has been gutted to its shell and inside it's basically brand new, and the Bulls have got the facilities they wanted that are the best in the league (which incidentally has been confirmed by a few players from other clubs).

The club need our support now more than ever. I would urge anyone who cares about building success at the club to contribute to the youth development in some way, be that by buying raffle tickets, joining the lottery or by joining BullBuilder (where your contribution will be spent by fans, not the club). They are the future of our club.

Just remember: in a few years this will all have been worth it. Just keep supporting our team.

I would just add that someone who whined about the actual building being "10 years old not new" really would be nit-picking at Olympic level. I mean, give me a break; is that meant to actually be some sort of a [icriticism[/i of the building or its acquisition, ffs? Is it meant to imply (""icon_wink.gif that it [iisn't[/i a state of the art facility, simply because it was previously a classroom block? Words fail me. I really do have trouble understanding where some people are coming from, sometimes.

And with exquisite timing, here is Connor Murphy reporting Medders in the T&A saying...well you've already read it on here:

The commitment to youth is great and attracting quality young players is what we need to do. The question is, after attracting them can we develope a good mix of players to feed into the first team and are we prepared to give them their chances. In the last ten years we have struggled to do this, aside from Leon all we seem to bring on is Props, second rowers and centre/fullbacks. It's the creative players and speedsters we fail to nurture. If the new facilities and set-up addresses this then great but at the moment it's more of the same as far as I can see. Crossley, Burgess, Burgess, Whitehead, Olbison, Donaldson, Addy and Wardle. Southernwood had to be imported and we are relying on too many players out of position.

I think the latter part of this thread is very helpful and informative and involves a debate we're now familiar with, which to simplify it a little is - invest now for future success, with the risk of falling attendances and corporate sponsorship (a risk to the club) or invest everything in success now with the risk of long term unsustainabilty and possible insolvency and no guarantee of success (a risk to the club).

I admit that I am ambivalent on the training facilities against spending the full cap argument - there are arguments on both sides in terms of which is most likely to breed success and which is most attractive to juniors. However, I imagine Macca has been very influential in pushing new facilities as he has enormous confidence in 'technical' fixes including the much vaunted in game monitoring of players (Andy Lynch mustn't have a heart beat!). His belief in technical approaches also came out very strongly in his pitch to the RFL for the England post. It seems to me that this is his selling point - 'I've done the research and if we can get this or that it'll make all the difference'. I tend to have more faith in old fashioned team building, motivation and leadership skills, and I'm hoping that whoever the new guy is he can combine supporting youth with turning out a motivated, well balanced first team that shares the workload and gets people back through the turnstiles.

We might be able to wait for youth and we probably have little choice, but once people get out of the habit of turning up it requires a huge amount of effort to get them back.

At the moment only Whitehead & Donaldson look anything special to me, (not having seen the Burgii in action yet). And one of those was taken from Cumbria.

TBF only Whitehead and Donaldson have seen extended 1st team rugby.

On the training facilities side of things it would be nice to see some more publicity about it. I'm not sure if the club were holding back until works were completed but if this were publicised a bit more it may help give a bit of context and put some minds at rest. If it really is the best in SL then lets bang on about it a bit more.

As has been said above the key is getting the balance right between long and short term investment. I happen to think that this year we have got the balance a bit better with investment in the likes of Orford, L'Strange and Kearney. Unfortunately injuries have made a mess of things.

I remember Leeds put up with some awful hammerings when they were building for the future. Their fans questioned it all the time in the period up to 2004 and then look what happened. The investment bore fruit. I'm hoping for a similar experience at Bradford.

Official opening reasonably imminent, as I understand it. Bullbuilder members may be in for a Brucie Bonus... The gist we got from Ryan and Medders was that they wanted to get the bulk of the work on their "best-kept secret" facility substantially complete first - pretty understandable?

From the piece attributed to Medders on the Bulls site:

"The investment made by the club in the superb facilities at Tong School- now widely acknowledged as the best in the game - will enable us to move in a progressive way with regards to improving the skill of the young players and [iwhen we officially launch the facility, then the general public will see for themselves just what a tremendous job the Bradford Bulls Board of Directors have done in investing in the future off the field.[/i "