I really feel sorry for you guys, we know the feeling, all the best for the future, apart from when you play us!

In OK's case, as I understand it was completely true.

I can't speak for Sutcliffe, which is why I found his silence since then somewhat bemusing.

Not really.

So it was more Runs with the Bull...

It is amazing the amount of people on here now who are trying to claim that they had their doubts about OK all along yet only now are coming out and saying so. It is very easy to be wise after the event is it not?

The transparency was blatantly obvious. I cannot believe that people were actually taken in.

I have twice now alluded to the answer of your question on this thread. I am unsure why you have chosen to ignore it?

A fan is, in most cases certainly, one who follows through thick and thin. In that I agree. However, it does not state anywhere that a fan should turn a blind eye to the obvious off the field.

FAR TOO MANY sports clubs are operating outwith their means these day, spending money they don't have, chasing success that other, better run clubs will never get because they cut their cloth accordingly. Then, instead of being made pay back their debts, most of them escape with a 10p in the Pound CVA, forcing some companies out of business.

It is abhorrent and immoral and I cannot just sit back and pretend that it does not bother me, because it does.

There is enough national debt at the moment without sports clubs making it worse in the blind chase for a trophy. After all, it is only a game.

I support the team ON the field but OFF it we are a disgrace. Thankfully we have now seen the back of idiots like Khan and the Hoodwinker and I believe from the general concensus that the new guys have the best interests of the club at heart and are feeling somewhat let down by the mess that they have inherited. I wish them all the best with this.

Hopefully we can start moving forward.

Excellent question.

My take on it: individually, no they do not. Collectively, and including the likes of RHP and others as a team, they are as likely to get there as we can hope for. Don't forget, these guys have been involved with the club anyway in recent times before they came on board as directors. I suspect in an ideal world, they could really do with an experienced, hands-on general manager as well though.

Why not? People tend to take things at face value, not because they're naive, but simply because they're not overly bothered in the end.

I trust this board no more and no less than the previous, or the previous before that, not because I'm some kind of fool, it's because what goes on isn't really any of my business, nor am I interested in it to be. I pays me money, I watch me team, that's it as far as I'm concerned.

Some will get more invloved and impassioned, but that's the for them to say.

You called it spot on. You "told everyone so".

That's the ONLY thing that matters, after all. What the club and fans are going through is irrelevant. You were right, that's what matters.

Who at the RFL is vetting and allowing these mickey mouse "investors" near the club in the bl**dy first place??

Drop down the league along with the Broncs.

BTW,

things are even worse than the T&A piece suggests, as we have lost our two home grown prize assets in the process and are still in a worse state than before the TWO WANNABES took over.

I need a drink!I have some Taylor's Landlord in the fridge.

Technically calling Gerry Sutcliffe that, could just mean you're referring to him being an MP.

Although unlikely....

Could be a quiet afternoon on here then once they've gone back to the VT!

Hi Guys,

I am new on here, moving to back home to Bradford from Somerset next week.

First of all Debt is not a bad word, it is how it is managed, The product (Rugby League) has to be sold to the supporter current and new. Did any one get an opportunity to ask what ideas both conceptual and programmed to bring back healthier supporter levels.

I understand the history of Odsal, having stood there watching Mr Seabourne as Northern too many years ago but have also wondered why the club and the RFL are so determined to hold onto an out of date stadium, when in fact Bradford City FC have an amazing stadium, using a ground sharing scheme would be more attractive financially and would employ more efficient cost cutting, without losing funds for higher class players?

There are a lot of positives in the board being truthful not least the supporters accepting the position and moving forward with the club.

Brian Noble mentioned some years ago, success in our great game is bought, that's why we have so many overseas players and is what he is doing at Salford. I disagree there has to be a more innovative approach to providing solutions to the debate that include home grown players and collective performance by supporters and club alike.

There is an old saying in business "people will buy what enhances their lives"

It seems we are in permanent 'survival mode' and have been since march 2012. I'm getting used to the financial problems now. I'm not very fond of them, though.

Indeed

Plus we are committed to making payments at Odsal under the terms of the various connected lease arrangements.

Also I am not sure why some people seem to assume that we could move in to a new home at VP for a song. Last time this was discussed it was pretty clear that the rent would be nearer an arm and a leg than a song.


You are of course right about managed debt, but I'm afraid there are plenty on here who have no clue about it, and think no business should have any debt, and should operate purely with cash it has in the till. They don't understand that it isn't whether you're in debt, but rather whether you use the loan/s well and can service that debt. They wouldn't get the fact that successful businesses normally have very significant borrowings.

Unless a very large sum of money has gone walkies though - and not even our worst enemies and trolls have suggested that sort of thing - then it is worth not losing sight of the seeming fact that the debts run up must therefore all have been spent on running the club in the 2013 season, not down the bookies or whatever. Presumably therefore a mixture living beyond your means, failing to keep close (or any) check of cashflow, getting into repeated hock, and hoping something would turn up (it never does).

The only thing I would add though is that sadly rugby league clubs are not really a "business" in the sense that they are attractive as somewhere for "businessmen" to "invest" money. They are one of the best and easiest way to do in your bollox, year after year, and that is why invariably the top clubs have a wealthy benefactor who is prepared to do precisely that.

We've been in the financial do dos pretty much since 2006/7. The club under successive owners has cut players and staff ever since. Hopefully the new people in charge will keep a tight rein on the money and we'll start to live within our means. They have my backing.

Wakey seem to have gone through a similar situation as us lately and I doubt if it's just us and them in this situation.

If anyone wants Whitcuts number to ask where money has gone, I've got it

1. I suspect that pressure could, if desired, be brought on Bradford Council to let the RFL, and thereby also the Bulls, off the hook as regards the lease on Odsal. ie. the Council could say ok we'll scrap the lease and you give us back the unencumbered freehold of Odsal. The Council could then do what ever is most advantageous for the people of the Bradford District with the land.

2. But, in the current climate (viz did you see the near very serious injuries at Old Trafford because of the non-existent gap between the dead ball lines and the perimeter fence [apart from that dangerous steep drop)?

Professional RL would not be allowed at Valley Parade nowadays. It's not long enough. For RL you need 100 metres for the field of play, 8 metres each for the in-goal areas and 5 metres at each end between the deadball line and the perimeter fence = 126 metres in total.

3. It shouldn't be difficult for this new board of directors to run the Bulls so it breaks even year on year from now on on the basis you are committed to not spending more than your income. The test for these directors, or any set of RL club directors, is do they have the skill/nous to gradually break-even over the years at higher and higher levels.

i.e. is it expected that in time they can get the Bulls' break-even level from say £1 milion in, £1 milion out each year up gradually to £10 milion in, £10 million out each year?

to be able to operate withing their means the club will have to forego the expectations of the fans who want to be in the playoffs, dream of Old Trafford and a visit to wembley. Unfortunately a lot of fans only attend when teams are successful, Bradfords success going forward for the next couple of years should be to not finish bottom of the league and try to rebuild from there. At least the RFL can help with a ground to play on at a minimal or zero cost

Would you not expect that the Bulls would have to pay the same rent to the RFL that the RFL has to pay to Bradford Council?

Odsal's playing area is nowhere near 100 mtrs long.
I thought last time you went to VP 5000 fans were lost and that was the reason you returned to Odsal.
That's of far more importance surely than the length of the field of play.

The RFL paya a peppercorn rent to bradford council for the primary lease. Thinks its nominally £1. Bulls pay RFL something in region of 70k a year. Pretty sure bulls would love to pay RFL same rent as RFL pays council.