Point dropped. Lots of players back next week so if EoC wants to ring the changes due to poor performance then he can do. I hope he does. Some of those players were doing some stupid stuff

That result is going to be another one that we will look back on at the end of the season and realise how costly it was.

Earlier in the season I genuinely thought EOC had a group he could mould into a side that might have an outside chance in a Championship GF. We had a determination in our defence that allowed us to make a few errors or concede some penalties. Not good enough, EOC has a job on his hands getting a grip on things before the season is all but over.

Spot on....the sensible call would have been the one pointer, but no. Poor game management once again.

Halfbacks aren't up to it. Can't fault Lilley's effort but he's not a leader. This was spotted yonks ago when he was shunted to be impact hooker where he's better IMO. Recruiting 37 year old Sammut who isn't a leader either shows where we are.

I'm not blaming him for the result, as it's an easy scapegoat, and it was extremely difficult conditions today, but Lilleys average Goal-kicking quality really is harming us.

2/5 today.
4/7 against York (was 3/6 until our last try which is why York sniffed a comeback)
The missed penalty in front of the posts against Batley.

He was always the backup kicker when we had players like Patton and Brough who were better at goalkicking. Ideally we'd have someone else doing the job. The main reason we're losing games or failing to win isn't really down to the goalkicking. It's down to playing dumb football.

Keyes coming in will improve things a bit provided he stays fit. That's next year though.

Isn’t Lilley kicking at 80%? If so I’d say that is more than acceptable?

I note Ryan Shaw who I would suggest is as good as anyone in the league at converting also kicked 2 from 5 on his home ground so it sounds conditions weren’t great?

It's around 75% I think. Even lower if you exclude penalties. I'm absolutely not blaming him for the result. It's more of an observation. As Bullseye said our dumb play and lack of game management is to blame and conditions were very poor for a kicker. But there's no question it's hurting us. Unfortunately we're stuck until Keyes comes in next year.

Keyes missed a sitter for Fax yesterday ironically it was to convert his own try which was a beauty. He's just what we need next season.

Indeed. Our inability to hold onto a win and close the game out was the reason we lost. A familiar set of circumstances. We need some cool heads that can take a step back and control the game.

I'd love to know the content of those half-time talks. It's now a certified trend just to fall away in the second half so I presume EOC is saying "Good first half, really impressive. I wouldn't bother repeating it though. What's everyone having for their tea?"

Yes, I think that’s spot on. Lilley’s goal kicking (the poor miss at Batley aside) isn’t the direct reason we have lost points we should’ve hung on to.

It’s absolutely poor game management and discipline, but as much as you can’t fault Lilley’s effort as noted above, he is one of the principal contributors to the game management aspect. For example, his Hollywood style pass in front of his own posts in the home game with Widnes. I can make some allowance for him maybe trying too hard at times, especially when the only recognised half back, but his approach in those ‘close out’ scenarios is awful, poor leadership and a captain he is not.

I’d actually look to replace him next season (not with Keyes who would effectively be Gaskell’s longer term replacement).

To use one of Bullseyes quotes, we'll have the grown ups back on the pitch soon. I think we win that game with Lawrence on the pitch. I've said it multiple times he's our most important player.

For how long though? I guess we can only hope we will have our key leaders all fit and raring to go for the latter part of the season. Not sure where Gaskell is in terms of fitness, he seems to have been a few weeks away for a few months now!

One thing thing that EOC did mention in his post match that I thought was a bit odd was how much we'd missed the professionalism of Doro and Taufua. I appreciate it was part of a wider comment on what they bring to the side and he said himself he wished the current team were playing so well that bringing them back would be a tough call.

However they're missing because they've both been banned by the disciplinary and not for the first time this year, let's hope they've also learnt their lessons. Undoubtedly they add some quality to the side, but they also have to take some responsibility for why they're missing during an injury crisis.

Will Lawrence play for us again?

Genuine question

You see him training with the team in social media clips , but he can't seem get fit enough to play matches

Yes. Him & Doro should be available for this weekend. Along with Taufua & Myers.
So up to 4 players can be dropped for poor form if EoC wants to....

One of the issues we have is that "grown ups" tend to be players that are approaching the end of their careers and that brings with it problems with recurrent injury. Any young player with leadership qualities isn't likely to be playing championship rugby, particularly if he's a halfback, they're rarer than hen's teeth. Last year we had a good run because we had a fit Gaskell, Lawrence, Segeyaro and Baitieri in the side. That's a heck of an experienced quartet.

Perhaps we are saving Lawrence for the business end of the season. Bizzare approach in my opinion. If he's fit, he should play.

Bizarre indeed, he could quite easily pick up an injury in training or 5 minutes into his return. I expected he would be 'managed' through the season but hoped we would see more of him than we have.

I assume Gaskell is expected to play again, talk after the game seemed to centre around Sammut having time to slot in rather than any mention of Gaskell or providing cover/competing with Gaskell.

Is Meadows an out and out scrum half or has he played at stand off? Realistically nether Gaskell or Sammut are going to be here next year. As for Lawrence I really can't see him being "held back". You're either fit or you aren't.

Other than gently rolling the ball to the loose forward's feet at scrums, there's no difference between them these days, is there? Every team has a left-side half back and a right-side half back, and it's not very often that they pass the ball to each other during a game.

I tend to think of the scrum half as a the first ball player and the stand off as the second, particularly if you're moving the ball from one side to the other. You're probably right though. What we need are some really vocal leaders who the rest of the team actually listen to. Ideally they'll make it onto the field for most games. At the moment we have Lilley who isn't really a playmaker and who doesn't really manage the game well under pressure and Sammut, another instinctive player who's 37 and past his best.

I suppose the only potential area of increased risk for your first game back is if it's been a muscle injury and it's an away game involving sitting in a bus or plane for 3hours+. Might be wise to hold someone back in that one specific instance.

That's a good point. I've a painful memory of putting my back out ill advisably playing almost immediately after a four hour flight home from Turkey.