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| Whoever get's the job will have a hell of a project on their hands for the next 12 months at the very least. It is difficult to see where the right calibre of player will come from at this stage to plug the gaps filled by the likes of BJ, Elima, Burgess, Hargreaves, Kopczak, Crookes departing. Looks like we will be relying on some of the youngsters and people like Donaldson to finally take that step up.
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| Quote ="REDWHITEANDBLUE"Like I previously posted you may have to consilidate live with the fact you are rebuilding dont have the expectation you will be at full cap challenging for everything, its not a god given right it will come if the business is run correctly.'"
Doubt we'll be challenging for much in the near future mate, though Omar Kahn is quoted in the T&A as saying we'll have the full cap to spend. In truth I'll be ecstatic if we're challenging for eighth next season.
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| TBH, I'd be happy with a younthful squad, some decent half backs and a few experienced forwards. I dont think any we have lost are irreplaceable.
Maybe we should look to a few loan signings? The Evans centre at Wolves or Ian Thornley at Wigan maybe? Dunno how much they are valued or likley to play for their clubs next season.
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| Given he's unproven as a head coach and our past record with "up and coming coaches" if Cummins IS getting the job, then I'd hope it's just for our probationary year in SL with an option for a longer deal should he show that he is indeed up for the job.
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| Given the likely 2013 squad I agree that we need a good manager with contacts. My dream team would be Brian Noble, francis Cummings as assistant coach, and ryan sheridan of featherstone as defence coach. Further if sammut is not in the squad I would play kearney at stand-off and bring in ian hardman of featherstone, the best defensive fullback out of the superleague.
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| Let me start that I was never a fan of Cummins being in the assistant's job, wished we had someone like our old boys keen to coach eg (of course) Menzies, McDermott, Anderson or maybe Jimmy Lowes even.
I don't know FC so can only judge on what little I've seen of him on the box, superficially don't immediately see either a steely man manager or an inspirational character.
That said, I ask myself, does he deserve a chance, and surprisingly have convinced myself that the clear answer is a resounding "Yes". Some factors:
1. Potter stuck with him. Potter would have been unlikely to have done so with a mug or a useless appendage
2. What does an assistant coach actually do? I suppose it varies club to club, but you need one, a coach can't do everything on his own, and you'd have to say that we have seen a very steady and very big improvement as the months have rolled by, to th extent that of late, while we could still have a 'mare, we were far more consistent, and genuinely back to a situation where nobody would relish playing us. We had been built into quite a formidable force, certainly compared to wher we started from. Therefore indisputably, FC must have been an integral part of achieving that.
3. We would not be picking a beginner. He is a man who now has 7 (?) years experience working under some very able coaches, watching and learning from their methods. He has therefore served a decent apprenticeship.
4. If you can promote from within, then to me that's the best way. Dynasty building and all that. The players presumably know and trust him, and he knows them. He also knows inside out the methods that have achieved such an improvement to date.
5. We certainly can't afford a top dollar Aussie coach
6. Potter has gone out of his way to recommend him.
In a nutshell therefore, I like his work, he's served his time, and if he's thrown his hat into the ring, he must feel he's ready, so bring it on.
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| Quote ="Bulliac"Doubt we'll be challenging for much in the near future mate, though Omar Kahn is quoted in the T&A as saying we'll have the full cap to spend. In truth I'll be ecstatic if we're challenging for eighth next season.'"
Even if we do have the full cap available I would rather we didn't try to spend up to the full cap immediately. With the lack of quality players available to sign at this stage the only way we could get near the full cap is to pay over the odds on wages to sign very average players, which would be disastrous in the long run.
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| Quote ="RAB90"Noble or FC?
Personally would like to see if Brian McDermott has a future at rhinos, if not think he would be good for us'"
You could have him today if it was down to the fans He's useless to be honest Leeds fans where warned by broncos fans when we appointed him about his strange tactics, use of subs, or not, non rotation of forwards giving old players new contracts etc etc etc
Wish Mr Heatherington had took notice
Somebody mentioned John Kear think you would do well with him he's a quality coach thats got a proven track record of coaching a side in adversity dont think you could any worse than him. good luck for next year it will be good to see if you can surprise the doubters and get into the play offs. SL is stronger with Bradfords Bulls
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| Quote ="Leeds lover"You could have him today if it was down to the fans He's useless to be honest Leeds fans where warned by broncos fans when we appointed him about his strange tactics, use of subs, or not, non rotation of forwards giving old players new contracts etc etc etc
Wish Mr Heatherington had took notice
Somebody mentioned John Kear think you would do well with him he's a quality coach thats got a proven track record of coaching a side in adversity dont think you could any worse than him. good luck for next year it will be good to see if you can surprise the doubters and get into the play offs. SL is stronger with Bradfords Bulls'"
Yet you won the league under McDermott? So he can't be all bad?
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| There's always been an element at Leeds that have said they've won things despite the coach not because of him. Seem to remember similar criticisms of both McLennan and Tony Smith while they were there
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| Quote ="debaser"Yet you won the league under McDermott? So he can't be all bad?'"
Using pretty much a squad that had won it 3 times on the bounce. Pretty safe to say there's an argument that he took over a good squad of players who could already get the job done and being professional players, didn't need too many pointers on how to do it again. But their performance in the league shows Leeds are becoming a spent force who are in need of an overhaul, similar to the Bulls post 2003.
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| If it is Cummings i will support him 100%, but it is a bit of a gamble, but on the flip side, we're keeping most of our main players, and he will definitely have the respect of the players. Our squad isn't the worst for next year.
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| Quote ="Gareth1984"Even if we do have the full cap available I would rather we didn't try to spend up to the full cap immediately. =#FF0040With the lack of quality players available to sign at this stage the only way we could get near the full cap is to pay over the odds on wages to sign very average players, which would be disastrous in the long run.'"
That though is the usual lot of newly promoted club and to some extent is pretty much the position we find ourselves, in terms of bringing anyone new into the club. We do though have a few of ooc players still on the books (if we can get them re-signed) and a good crop of youngsters (who will still need bringing through properly) but, even with the 2013/4 contractees I'd guess the number in the squad is going to be on the low side, so we can't take too many risks.
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| Quote ="debaser"Quote ="Leeds lover"You could have him today if it was down to the fans He's useless to be honest Leeds fans where warned by broncos fans when we appointed him about his strange tactics, use of subs, or not, non rotation of forwards giving old players new contracts etc etc etc
Wish Mr Heatherington had took notice
Somebody mentioned John Kear think you would do well with him he's a quality coach thats got a proven track record of coaching a side in adversity dont think you could any worse than him. good luck for next year it will be good to see if you can surprise the doubters and get into the play offs. SL is stronger with Bradfords Bulls'"
Yet you won the league under McDermott? So he can't be all bad?'" Leeds lover appears to think he is the voice of all Leeds fans. And even if he was, without somehow filtering out the heavy proportion of s how could you gauge the feelings of the ones with brains?
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| The difficulty with appointing a new coach is that Omar and Gerry are so new onto the scene that they must surely have extremely limited knowledge as to whether Cummins is the right guy.
If I were them I'd need for evidence than Mick Potter's recommendation - which will possibly be skewed by a sense of loyalty engendered by the way Cummins stuck with the club this season. In that position, I'd be having a quiet word with some of the senior pros in the squad - Diskin, L'Estrange, Langley.
It's a key appointment, if we get it wrong and it all ends in tears, then we could be into a downward spiral quite quickly
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| Cummins is clearly highly regarded by Potter and the players but I'm not sure he is ready for the hot seat without some sort of senior support. If he is appointed as Head Coach I'd like to see Noble or Kear brought in, in a Director of Football sort of role.
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| Quote ="JUDGE666"Cummins is clearly highly regarded by Potter and the players but I'm not sure he is ready for the hot seat without some sort of senior support. If he is appointed as Head Coach I'd like to see Noble or Kear brought in, in a Director of Football sort of role.'"
agree with idea of bringing in someone in a director of rugby role. let Cummins concentrate on coaching side initially and let someone else handle management side. Think it would need to be someone who was capable of taking a step back and not micro managing coaching side and undermining Cummins. Not sure either Noble or Kear could stay in the background.
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| It will be interesting to see what the overall management structure will be. Previous chairmen, Hood and Caisley's, appeared to be fairly hands on in running the club particularly regarding recruitment. And they employed CEOs to deal with the day to day stuff. Khan And Sutcliffe don't have the experience on the rugby side and will focus on commercial activities.
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| Both have said they will leave the rugby side to, and be guided, by, the coaching staff.
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| I don't think we can afford the luxury of a director of rugby unless there's somebody prepared to do it for nothing. Cummins is either up to the job or he's not. He's been an assistant for long enough. I can't think of any coaches who didn't start as an asistant- Shaun Wane was an assistant last season.
They either
1, Have a target from outside the club in mind.
2, Advertise the post - but as we need someone fairly quickly the process would probably take too long.
3, Promote from within - ie Cummins gets the job.
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| I dont think it will be that to appoint, there must be 300 fully qualified international coaches on rlfans alone.
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| The winner of the fantasy league competition has to be a shoe-in surely.
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| Would have to be the bradford league winner tho for loyalty, someone who turns up to all the matches, knows everything about the bulls, knows the players inside out, always puts forward a valid argument why we should have won and why we lost.
Step forward mr mystic eddie with tigertot as his assistant.
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| Quote ="Ferocious Aardvark"Let me start that I was never a fan of Cummins being in the assistant's job, wished we had someone like our old boys keen to coach eg (of course) Menzies, McDermott, Anderson or maybe Jimmy Lowes even.
I don't know FC so can only judge on what little I've seen of him on the box, superficially don't immediately see either a steely man manager or an inspirational character.
That said, I ask myself, does he deserve a chance, and surprisingly have convinced myself that the clear answer is a resounding "Yes". Some factors:
1. Potter stuck with him. Potter would have been unlikely to have done so with a mug or a useless appendage
2. What does an assistant coach actually do? I suppose it varies club to club, but you need one, a coach can't do everything on his own, and you'd have to say that we have seen a very steady and very big improvement as the months have rolled by, to th extent that of late, while we could still have a 'mare, we were far more consistent, and genuinely back to a situation where nobody would relish playing us. We had been built into quite a formidable force, certainly compared to wher we started from. Therefore indisputably, FC must have been an integral part of achieving that.
3. We would not be picking a beginner. He is a man who now has 7 (?) years experience working under some very able coaches, watching and learning from their methods. He has therefore served a decent apprenticeship.
4. If you can promote from within, then to me that's the best way. Dynasty building and all that. The players presumably know and trust him, and he knows them. He also knows inside out the methods that have achieved such an improvement to date.
5. We certainly can't afford a top dollar Aussie coach
6. Potter has gone out of his way to recommend him.
In a nutshell therefore, I like his work, he's served his time, and if he's thrown his hat into the ring, he must feel he's ready, so bring it on.'"
I can't argue with a word of that, I still wouldn't give it to him though. Having been at a lower club when the head coach left I have witnessed a BoD, with no in depth RL knowledge, scrapping around for a new coach. They appointed the bloke who used to drive him to the club from Cas, as the coach couldn't drive. I am not directly comparing the 2 but do wonder what experience OK & GS do have & what soundings they have taken. Obviously MP has recommended FC, & I am not qualified to argue with him, but history is littered with failed assistants recommended by the last head coach.
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