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| Quote ="martinwildbull"the mini preseason was probably mostly a mindset reset of how he wanted them to play. The team was underperforming including physically, extra physical workout would not alter that as the source would be either central fatigue or more likely chronic fatigue syndrome. change of mindset, getting them to focus on his positives, would get the most out of their existing fitness levels.'"
Let's just break this thesis down.
Extra physical workout (either weights or cardio presumably) does not improve physical performance (even if they were laying on the sofa all week?) but would most likely lead to chronic fatigue syndrome, otherwise known as ME??
I suggest you send this to the Lancet as to my (layman's) knowledge the causes of CFS are still a mystery within the medical profession. If Lowes has identified a common factor this would be an extraordinary breakthrough.
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| I guess Martin was meaning that very hard work physical work, as much pre-seaon work is, is done to help [ilong term[/i muscle improvement and is not normally done close to competition times, as it can indeed have the opposite effect.
When I was involved in athletics overdoing the training was referred to as 'leaving your strength on the road' or 'on the training track'. The normal way is to do the heavy work early in the schedule and then wind down the physical stuff, long heavy weights sessions, long runs etc, as the competition starts. Competition itself, along with shorter sharper training bursts are then sufficient to keep somewhere near your peak both in a cardio vascular and power sense.
Have to say it would be interesting to know what [iexactly[/i what was involved in Jimmy's 'mini' pre-season last year but the way the players seemed fresher and more up for things suggests to me that it wasn't a full on pre-season schedule, which as Martin suggests would probably have left them knackered. Some weights, no doubt, and some 'fresh ideas' in the mix. A change is as good as a rest, I suppose.
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| Quote ="Bulliac"
Have to say it would be interesting to know what [iexactly[/i what was involved in Jimmy's 'mini' pre-season last year but the way the players seemed fresher and more up for things suggests to me that it wasn't a full on pre-season schedule, which as Martin suggests would probably have left them knackered. Some weights, no doubt, and some 'fresh ideas' in the mix. A change is as good as a rest, I suppose.'"
Maybe Jimmy had paid to watch the Wigan game - so the "mini" pre-season was a punishment?
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| Just as momentum is a product of mass times velocity, think about what I am saying about fitness (in the context we are talking about) as a product of muscle times mind set. Muscle of itself is not sufficient. The Lumberjack may produce as much momentum into a tackle as Tahraoui because he looks a bit faster on his feet which compensates for lighter weight. So with mindset. if you are less motivated it does not matter how much muscle you put on, if you cannot be bothered to get off your and use it.
and if we are one 18 stone prop short next season we were three short last season, with the knock on effects on morale through having nothing in the middle of the pitch. the shortage of tackle capacity in the squad meant more burden on the rest. That is going to wear you down mentally. Being continually beaten as a result of three props short is going to wear you down mentally. Having a good game with four props only for one of them to decline further loan will wear you down mentally. Having a coach that repeats himself because he has no magic answer to the lack of props will wear you down mentally. going on a blog site and reading the comments of fans who dont realise what three props short means to you as a player wears you down mentally. etc etc ad nauseam mensorum.
and I am not saying that this was a conscious thing by the players last year, I am sure they all wanted to do their best. But the subconscious can be a strong brake on the conscious and therefore performance. Change that mindset, and unleash the potential. Or is that an unfair interpretation of the truism, a change is as good as a rest?
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| I wish our moderators would stop getting off their rcs to change my Englishisms into Americanisms such as booty. (edit by me) An rs is an rs by any other name - misquote.
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| What training/conditioning can and does do is put the physical components into top condition.
However what it cannot and does not do is put the brain into the right mindset to go out each week and crush the opposition, keeping in that mindset for 80 minutes.
And also it doesn't manufacture the various substances, eg adrenaline, which can suddenly at the flick of some neuron switch turn an almost dead-on-his feet player into a tiger.
And also it doesn't create confidence or arrogance or a feeling of invincibility.
Yes, games can and do change drastically if a team playing well suddenly runs out of steam, but it's my opinion that all the other factors are within the province of the coach and also the on-field leaders of the team, and if any given two teams are not all that far apart in basic physical equipment and fitness, then it is, I think, much more in the head and hormones that games are won or lost.
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| Strange in all these posts on physical condition, attitude, size, strength and even hormone levels and how they can impact the result of a game - I cannot see skill mentioned once as a factor?
If I could add one more player to the current squad it would be a skilful half - irrespective of his size
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| To be fair, I'm pretty happy with the skill levels of Siejka [as evidenced by his earlier Aussie career and Gaskell. I certainly don't think we'll lose out at half back if they deliver what I believe they are capable of. My own, half hearted, wish for another half was merely as a back up, but if Harry is now 'fully fit', as he says, it really depends on how he gels with Lee and I guess only time will tell on that one.
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| Yes agree in Gaskell we should have a stand out half for the championship, not seen Siejka so not sure what we can expect from him.
But going back - admittedly many years - to my playing days before the phrase "game plan" was in general usage, to the extent any instructions were given by the coaches it tended to be "splat their scrum half". Judging by the incident at the Grand Final that is still a common tactic - so would feel safer with another out and out half rather than an out of position 2nd row as back up.
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| Well, we still have space for one more I think - even an overseas player. I certainly wouldn't argue with another half, though for my money our squad is strong enough to maybe hold fire and see what happens injury wise, or even who may yet become available.
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| Quote ="Northernrelic"Strange in all these posts on physical condition, attitude, size, strength and even hormone levels and how they can impact the result of a game - I cannot see skill mentioned once as a factor?
'"
That would be because you can coach, train or motivate but you can't coach skill, like you can't educate pork.
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| Quote ="Ferocious Aardvark"That would be because you can coach, train or motivate but you can't coach skill, like you can't educate pork.'"
All those skills coaches out there will be bricking themselves if the read this!
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| Ah - that's the difference between skills - catching, passing, kicking which can all be practiced and trained.
And Skill - which is innate.
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| Skills you can coach - it's class - which if you are lucky enough you are born with.
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| Quote ="Bulliac"Well, we still have space for one more I think - even an overseas player. I certainly wouldn't argue with another half, though for my money our squad is strong enough to maybe hold fire and see what happens injury wise, or even who may yet become available.'"
Problem with having an overseas spot free and waiting to see where injuries strike, is delay between recruiting someone and them getting a visa. By time their available play injured player is likely available again. I'd take next month or so off pre season to assess squad and how they gel together, then recruit someone to improve weakest area of squad. On paper I'd say someone to cover halves and fullback but there may be another more obvious weakness that shows up in the training sessions.
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| agree with the timing mat, but on paper we already have three covers to the halves and two for full back so I would go, as MBugs does, with another prop whether overseas or not
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| Quote ="Highlander"Ah - that's the difference between skills - catching, passing, kicking which can all be practiced and trained.
And Skill - which is innate.'"
Precisely the point.
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| I must confess at this point that my favourite player was Ian Van Bellen and I have petitioned the RFL to narrow every pitch by 20 metres, thereby making the game much more exciting.
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| Ha ha, yeah, Selwyn didn't make much lateral use of the pitch, it's true. IVB was really a prototype Baloo..
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| It's a little-known fact that Ian was at the vanguard of sports science, most fans thought that his wild-man combover trailing in the wind was just the result of insufficient Silvikrin, but in fact this was designed to break up airflow behind him, very much like jet winglets reduce drag, and this helped him to achieve that incredible turn of pace.
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| My favorite IVB memory is at the Boulevard, CC 3rd round reply vs the Hull team of all stars. Northern under siege most of the game, when Ian tried a left foot 30 yard drop goal. The Threepenny stand laughed when he tried it then went quiet when it went over, still climbing!! Great memory of an 8-4 win with very few Northern fans there and lots of black & whites! Then we screwed up in the semi against Widnes!!!
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| Quote ="Mirfieldbull"My favorite IVB memory is at the Boulevard, CC 3rd round reply vs the Hull team of all stars. Northern under siege most of the game, when Ian tried a left foot 30 yard drop goal. The Threepenny stand laughed when he tried it then went quiet when it went over, still climbing!! Great memory of an 8-4 win with very few Northern fans there and lots of black & whites! Then we screwed up in the semi against Widnes!!!'"
Yeah, we did that a few times, IIRC....
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| Quote ="salfordlad"Surprised at that response it seemed a perfectly reasonable post to me.
Will discuss it Dave when we meet up at Fev next year.'"
Now now Frank, these Bulls fans will start to think that we get on well down here with each other and we wouldn't want to give that impression (even with Gingdong trying his best to troll along th eway). Personally I can't wait while we play leigh on the 15th March. I assume your up for a beer or bottle of red in the top house?
For the Bull fan's - if anyone fancies meeting up before/during/after the Fev game to chew the fat and maybe have a beer (or soft drink) on the 1st March please drop me a PM I might even be able to introduce you to Gingdong so that you can see the Casey chip on his shoulder.
Yours in sport,
Dave
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| Interesting comment by Hetherington on the YEP website today, I thought that the issue of dual registration had yet to be decided!
Hetherington said: “All our first team squad – the top-25 – are effectively dual-registered with Hunslet Hawks.
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| Thought the average age of the squad numbers 1- 13 (presumably the starting 13 ) announced in the article was of more interest. if next season those 6 players out of 13 that over 30 are all at the wrong end of the normal distribution of injuries to players over 30 years old, we could be playing Leeds sorry Hunslet in the £1m game. strange game rugby league.
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