I consider myself pretty optimistic but I must confess I'm finding it increasingly hard to support the coach right now. I am certain he is working hard to sort this mess out and that he has put some good things in place at the club. We may well have a much stronger academy and I am sure McNamara can take a big chunk of the credit for this. But watching the Bulls each week, we're simply not progressing. We don't look pumped up for the fight in matches, we're lethargic and lacking spark.

If McNamara does not drop some of the under performers/less than 100%ers then surely he is on borrowed time? I have written this season off now, but we need to see some massive improvement on the pitch in this 2nd half.. otherwise I dread to think what sort of crowds we'll attract in 2010. I've heard all the excuses.. I've offered quite a few, but the coach and the players have to now stand up and back up their statements once and for all. If they fail, big changes surely have to be made to keep the fans on side, because they're the life of this club.

But are you still willing to bet anyone?

Couldn't put it better.

I would go further and hope that the club has a contingency plan in place in case we're still in the same position come July/August.

If the second half of this season is like the first we may as well write off next season too if we keep the same personnel

Im with you Mr Bullseye. If we'r in this position come the end of the season we might be getting worried about franchises

Yes!

After putting FA to the charidy betting sword last week I'm severely tempted. What odds are you offering?

IF the same criteria were applied next time as this, then you'd be looking at last year, this year and next year as basis years. Looking at the criteria (if these are the fin al ones...someone correct me if I am wrong):


1. A stadium capacity of at least 12,000;

2. An average crowd of 10,000 or more;

3. An average crowd that fills at least 40% of a club's stadium capacity;

4. A turnover of at least £4 million per annum;

5. Solvency, in accordance with accounting definitions of solvency, although this criterion can be satisfied if there is a written owner's guarantee of the club's debts;

6. A reasonable playing strength, which is likely to be satisfied if the club has finished the season in the top eight in each of the last three years;

7. A reasonable contribution to junior development, judged by the number of scholarships and the performances of the club's under-21 and under-18 Academy teams in the last three years;

8. The stadium meeting the standard of a premier sporting competition, which is judged on the quality and quantity of its facilities in accordance with detailed criteria;

9. Geographical position: clubs that are more than 20 miles away from any other Super League club will be allocated one point on this criterion;

10. Compliance with salary cap regulations. Specifically, clubs must not have incurred any beach of the salary cap in the last three years.

We received a B licence (5-7 points) so we must have dropped at least 3 points - I presume it was 8,9 & 10 we failed on? In which case we were at the top of the B list.

IF crowds average below 10k for this year and next year (IF...) and IF we finish well outside the top 8 this year and next year (IF...) then we would likely drop 3 points (2,3,6) and regain a point (10) so we'd have what...5 points? That would still have given us a B-grade, just...with still 8 clubs below us. But the big questions would be:

1. How many clubs would have climbed the ladder and passed us?
2. Will the criteria have changed for next time (One of the questions I emailed Duffy was about this).

What does seem clear is that if the two IFs I postulated DID come to pass, we'd be on a much stickier wicket than last time. Lets just hope the performances and attendances improve so we achieve 2,3 &6.

I think the difficulty of the task should weight the bet.

How about if we make the 8 you donate £20 to a charity of my choice.

If we don't I'll donate £10 to yours.

Game?

How about you get ******?


You've got the best young coach in the world & you are offering 1/2. You offer me 2/1 & I might bite. I could get better odds from Gledhill.

I can't see any real possibility of Bradford not getting a spot next time. If Wakey, Salford, even Cas, can get in one of the bigest cities in the UK shouldn't be a problem. I would be surprised if a sod has been turned on any of the aforementioned new stadia come franchise.

TBH Adey I think that getting a franchise won't be too much of a problem provided the goalposts haven't been moved.

Our real challenge is to continue as a solvent business given the financial millstone of the ground, lack of money in the boardroom and dwindling crowds due to poor performances and less marketing.

Why don't we just sell the ground and build a new one as with the likes of Wakey, Cas, Salford and the S



There must be suitable land in Bradford going begging for this kind of development. On second thoughts lets build it just outside Bradford so that Bradford council don't balls it up for us. I'm still waiting for Bradford to 'bounce back' and that campaign must have started in AD 411?

Lets say - for sake of argument - they stick with 14 clubs. (I suspect MIGHT go to 16 but lets say 14).

Lets assume the Championship winner is admitted automatically.

Lets assume the RFL decide to admit at least one new "Development Area" club" regardless (I have feeling will be more than one, but only if they increase beyond 14 clubs).

Lets assume that at least one more championship club easily meets the criteria.

Lets assume that Cats and Celts are allowed to stay (by whatever means) regardless, because they are from "development areas".

That's 11 slots left, so we lose three of the existing 14.

So who goes?

On anything like current performance, I'd suggest you'd be looking at Wakey Salford and Cas. And us.

If just one of those gets a decent ground between now and then (or can convince the RFL (again) that its imminent) and we don't I suggest we could be in some difficulties?

And I deliberately passed on the solvency test, cos the club cannot really NOT be solvent provided it pays its PAYE and VAT and trade suppliers - it effectively cannot borrow so can't run up huge debts in the normal course of business, and the biggest potential liability (the repayment to the council) only crystalises if we move from Odsal. What would most likely happen if things onfield do not improve is that we will end up with a cheaper and cheaper team and operation, so come franchise time we'll be failing most of the criteria anyway. IMO.

1. Because we'd have to pay a seven-figure sum back to the council when we left Odsal.

2. Because we don't own the ground so we can't sell it.

3. Because we don't have the cash nor the ability to raise cash to fund such a project.

Other than that, its a cracking idea!

Someone has been out in the sun too long.

Here's an idea - how about leaving one thread free of 'humorous' comments from you intended to underline how sh.t you think we are. Just one!

Mod hat off here... this is just friendly advice.



If you're so confident that a side that has already beaten Leeds and Saints this year has zero chance of doing anything in the play-offs, offer some odds.

You're now the proud owner of a square something of titchwell march in Norfolk. With EU Life project funding that doubled to a tenner and i matched the stake so between us we own half the reserve.

This is become the most overused cliche on here amongst the PT. Maybe you should adopt it as your motto?

The reason I cannot see us doing anything in the play-offs is simple - I cannot see us making the play offs because we are just not good enough. Leeds, Saints, ull KR, Wire and Wigan, I believe will certainly finish above us, and I expect Huddersfield, Cas and possibly Wakefield and Quins too TBH.

Seeing as you mentioned Leeds and Saints however, did you notice that Salford got duffed again this week and Celtic got utterly slaughtered at home?





The usual af argument - you must provide a counter argument to the case! Sadly, I am not a bookie so making odds is not an ability I can pretend to have. I did, however, notice one bookie offering 50/1 against us winning the GF as opposed to only 25/1 to finish bottom. (i.e. twice as likely to finish bottom as top)

The poster reckons we can challenge for Old Trafford and, sorry if this upsets anyone, but that is a bit of an absurd suggestion IMO. We might bump our gums about Leeds and Saints but Salford have beaten ourselves and Leeds (which would not have been expected at the start of the season) but does anyone think that they can challenge for Old Trafford?

Fancy...

Indeed - so why did you avoid the point about Salford and Celtic then?

Becuase we've gone over this time and time again. Wakey in turn got hammered by Huddersfield, who got slotted at home by Salford. And this means... what exactly?

It means that once again I am confused by double standards then. You are freely admitting that, on certain days, anyone can beat anyone, yet look at wins against Leeds and St Helens as some form of indication that we have got what it takes.

I realise that you are desperately searching for positives now and accept your need to take every crumb of comfort you can but constantly pointing to the two good results we have had whilst seemingly ignoring the plenty more bad results is hardly formulating a balanced argument.

The problem is that plenty of other sides are taking defeats on the chin then getting a few good results in the bag. We seem to be incapable of doing that.

You've forgotten what we're arguing about. You accused someone of being 'out in the sun too long' for suggesting we might have a say in the play-offs. Looking at our form - some good wins, some shocking defeats and a load of narrow ones - it seems far from inconceivable we'll put enough wins together to make the eight, then pull something out in the post-season. Again, we're not talking certainties or even likelihoods but possibilities. And the reason I posted first of all was that I was just finding your habit of adding a snide 'aren't we cr.p?' comment to every thread a bit tedious.

I shouldn't bother. It was good while it lasted, but ME has a very short attention span, and thus has forgotten the Guinness-record-sized portion of humble pie he (TBF very gracefully) ate after proclaiming long and loud just how stuffed we would be at Saints.

Who does own it then?
If we don't own it, why do we have to pay for the upkeep?

I would expect to have to pay to maintain my house, coz I own it, but not the street outside that doesn't belong to me.