You're not alone feeling like that mate. I'm been supporting this club for over 20 years and usually miss few games in a season but I've just about reached my limit right now. I can cope without the trophies and the success but this once great club in fast becoming a complete laughing stock. Those responsible for this mess should bloody well hang their heads in shame. How hard is it to find some owners who can run the club properly?

Very disillusioned right now, I just hope whatever our future may be..it is sorted sooner rather than later.

Indeed



But maybe the question should be rephrased "how hard is it to find some owners who are prepared and able to put their hands deep in their pockets year on year? And in the face of flak from the supporters - the lack of enough of whom is the underlying root of the problem - when the results are not to their liking?"

Mild Rover got it spot-on earlier. Its bloody hard to run a sports club as a professional business standing on its own feet financially, when the owners a considerable number of your competitors are heavily subsidising THEIR clubs.

Many fans, and most of those of other clubs, derided Caisley when he came up with the "People's Team" epiphet. Personally, I cringed at it. Yet, in the dreadful launch and poor delivery of the message, the underlying message itself was lost: without a rich backer, the club relied on the people who supported it, and the wider community, to pay for it. Caisley played hell at the people of Bradford in late 2004 for not supporting the club in sufficient numbers. As was so often the case, the delivery of his message was counterproductive, but the underlying concern was well-founded. I suspect he had grown pretty desperate by then. In fact, I am bloody sure he had.

It might be worth revisiting some of what he said then, to see if it is still relevant:

[i=#400040...Clearly, the business cannot continue to sustain such losses year on year and there will be a need to cut overheads and/or increase turnover. Of course, the biggest expense is the player wage bill, but in sport it is not just as simple as reducing those costs. The Club needs to remain competitive which requires that it has good quality players and a good junior development structure, all of which comes at a price. Therefore, there will be a push to increase the number of spectators attending games in 2005 and our commercial sales department will be tasked with the job of securing additional inward investment.

The fact remains that if Bradford wants a rugby league team to remain at the top of the sport and the pride of the city in terms of the prestige and the recognition which we bring then the people of Bradford will have to begin supporting the Club in ever increasing, not decreasing, numbers. I suspect that supporters will have to understand and accept that success can only be maintained for so long as the support remains high...[/i

Regardless of who is to blame, we can all see the consequences of it not being a "people's team". And what he said became a self-fulfilling prophecy, with reducing crowds meaning less finance available meaning worsening performances on the park meaning reducing crowds meaning less finance available...

It's 2012 redux. Short of a sugar daddy, I can offer no easy solutions. Can anyone?

Some worrying tweets coming from some Bulls players this afternoon...

A good post and personally I feel that it is the way forward.

However I would suggest a couple of things. I feel the club should resurface in the 2nd tier under special dispensation. It would mean maybe just 1 year away from SL but with a clean slate and with other Yorkshire teams in that Division many derbies and continued interest for the long suffering fans.

Where would the club play though? $64,000 Question.

Remember Glasgow Rangers were demoted 3 Divisions & yet their attendances haven't suffered too much and the new Board recruited cheaply - building the squad gradually BUT making PROFITS.

Much obliged Adey, I suppose the fact that we have in place some form of contingency plan with a supporters trust fully operational ,if not yet in action, at least gives us some form of negotiating stance with the RFL and whoever takes the helm at the Bulls. ie BB is a stakeholder of an historical nature. Which incidentaly was an absolute godsend in helping to save the Bulls in 2012. All at Bullbuilder at the time deserved our thanks for the efforts, which is why I say they are still Stakeholders in many peoples eyes.

I understand that chairmen take flak for trying to run clubs within budgets when others overspend. But I would put in a rider on that. If chairmen are honest with the fans and say they are willing to step aside if someone can offer to run it at a loss. Then they would (I feel) incure less flak.

There will always be the mindless folk who think money grows on trees and their £20 through the turnstyle means that a chairman they do not know and have no idea how much time and money they spend should self finance a wonder team for their pleasure.

But I do feel that there are also fans who if told from the outset, that we cannot run at a loss will be more accepting of mediocrity. I would not say totally accepting as we all hope for better in everything in life. But if the defense was put up from the start that if a big player offered to bank roll the club then they would be welcomed to do so, it would stop most with a brain hurling insults.

Maybe I have high expectations of fans.

I do feel that there should be some way of financially arranging all clubs within SL to be run at a break-even level and no more. I am not expert enough in the legal side or financial side to see how it could be done. But if all clubs could only spend to break even level. Then any additional spending could be allowed on the understanding that the liability and risk is not levied against the club but the (owners/investors/BOD's).

I'm not sure if it is possible or even legal. But such an arrangement would allow for big spenders, without the risk to clubs long term status. If all clubs had to run like this, then there would still be bigger and smaller clubs and smaller clubs could still be financially backed to take on the bigger ones and build them up. But the firewall in the spending would mean less risk.

Maybe something like a joint venture.

For example the Wigan Warriors. The Wigan club owned in perpetuity by the fans. The income generated by the club and spent by the club could only ever break even at worst. However, in a joint venture the Wigan club and Ian Lenegan (et al) could spend what ever they wished so long as the clubs books themselves broke even. If the joint venture make a profit, then that is split between the club and the investors on what ever terms the joint venture deemed suitable.

Is that even possible??

One day, the clubs owners ( all clubs in both SL and the lower tiers ) will realise that their ' job ' entails giving their coach/football director his budget, in the sensible knowledge that no matter what the coach and team achieve on the field will result in an increase in revenue

From that point on it is their job to then work at increasing revenue outside the actual playing of a game, all too often they think that once they've provided the money for players their job is done and they can sit back enjoying their whisky and prawn sarnies in their corporate box/room and just expect the populace of their towns to turn up

If they behaved in this way in their core business they would be bankrupt in a couple of years

I'd love to know how many clubs dont alocate a dedicated marketing budget before they hand over the playing budget to their coaches?

It is the directors responsibility to grow their businesses, not the coaches or players, they are nothing more than a cost, and should be treated as such

Welcome to the real world, not much of a ' fan ' are you?

I predict that gullible boy is talking out of his backside, as per usual. Does he still really think that people still fall for his 'inside track' schtick?! The mans a fool and blaggard.

What's been/being said?

Garreth Carvell ‏@carvs81 17h

Ha ha ha ha, well if you didn't laugh, you'd cry

Jam Sandwich ‏@Jarrod_Sammut 21h

Good to see nothing changes!

Jarrod also re-tweeted a message that said: #Aquarius don't want half the story. Tell them the whole thing or don't tell at all.

It didn't become a self fulfilling prophecy at all. By 2010 we lost 12 out of the last 13 games and a squad operating at full salary cap were playing to just over 6000 fans. There was nothing inevitable about this. It was the result of catastrophic failure of management. That SM stayed in post for over 4 years is the single worst decision in Super League history.

Agree totally, the crowd dropped in 2010 and it was reported on the annual figures that we had lost £750,000 approx in turnover. The game we have now is much better to watch, being more exciting with the hope that we may win. No one likes to keep going to game after game and losing. Lets hope we can keep our team together which we hope will generate further income. and enthusiasm.

That is just the point I made at the time from mid 08 I always argued it had got to the stage where the club could simple not afford to sack SM due to so many people not turning up.

Utter bollox. The amateur game has been going for over a hundred years in Bradford and will continue with or without a pro club. If anything the amateur game would thrive without the pro club taking hundreds of kids on mass and then shattering there dreams by discarding them without a care & losing them to the game all together.

Complete and utter bollox

You cannot rely on your results and performances to increase income, this is why you are in the crap you currently are, it is lazy management to do this, as was reducing your ST prices

Mick, we need the positive news. As Friday has passed, it can't be embargoed any more so put us out of our misery

If we couldn't make money winning all the pots available in 2003 and the subsequent World Club Challenge then how the hell is the club ever going to be self-sustaining?

It's sugar daddy or bust. Simple as.

It seems like RHP isn't going anywhere according to today's t&a, which I suppose is some consolation.

Also, for what it's worth:

Mick Gledhill ‏@TheGameCaller 25m

Bradford Bulls Update: Talks are still ongoing between the interested parties. New make-up of the club's BOD will be announced accordingly.

and in other news the world is round and a child somewhere in the world cries.

Of course talks are ongoing. It's not like Omar's thought hmmm there's a million quid I've pumped into this (by whatever means) and it's still losing me cash. Oh forget about it it's the Christmas holidays it can wait.

I guess not then.

The game of RL in Bradford is failing altogether. Without a pro team for youngsters to support and aspire to there would be decreased interest in the game across the city and less numbers playing, ultimately ending in mass failure of the sport in the city.

Claims that Bradford has a significant amateur scene seems odd to me. It is not what you would call a rugby city by any means. So, whilst we have a few clubs, any suggestion of starting from scratch using that amateur scene as a backbone is pure bonkers.

It seems those who want to offer quasi sage advice to us from outside the area probably know little about the reality on the ground.

I don't think it's unfair to suggest that many (not all) of people who were fans during the Bullmania era are now lost to the game. Many were youngsters who went along as it was cheap for their parents to take them at the time and it was a successful side, won more than they lost, own trophies. But as they get older and move away to uni, start families, get other interests, it's hard to bring them back.

I remember standing in odsal amongst 25000 fans watching a playoff game between Bradford and Leeds, and a similar crowd for a Bradford vs Wigan playoff game. Where have these fans gone?

Part of me thinks maybe Omar Khan's vision of making the bulls profitable wasn't such a bad idea, yes it wasn't a perfect plan, but maybe the people he appointed in key positions, with no knowledge of running a sports team is where it all went wrong?

Mick Gledhill has said that some of the people Omar is looking to appoint are not strangers to the club, so god knows what's about to happen next. If indeed mick isn't just blowing hot air....

It's only one of the parameters, but to put and to keep bums on seats results and performance on the field of play is the main indicator of income?

Figures of the before and after of this statement can be generated to prove conclusively that people paying out money generates income.

Your opinion like your crude expression is unwarranted.