But a professional and serious musician is far removed from the great unwashed masses of his or her audience, your hordes of spotty teenagers, they won't have by and large any knowledge of that stuff.

The sort of up and coming bands and musicians from around the world, the type of people Jools Holland has on, the future of proper music seems to be pretty safe in their hands, it's just I doubt many of their audience would know much about many of their influences.

I just did a spot check on a 20 year old here and he couldn't basically tell me anything about the music of any of those guys you named. I wasn't surprised, although he was when I punched him for not having heard of Neil Young.

To be fair TT, I feel FA is both right and wrong about being relevant. Many artists, like Cliff Richard for instance remain relevant to their particular audience by continually 're-inventing' themselves and he was filling stadiums last year IIRC; no one surely thinks that it's only the young who define relevance? and no-one can be relevant to everyone - though as FA very rightly points out, they still have a wage to earn.

Everyone has their niche to fill, from the spotty adolescent playing his (three ?) root position chords to the virtuosi at a more elevated skill level, and it's all relevant, and probably 'great', to someone.

Thinking of FA's blues music (and mine, as I really love this stuff), the 'relevance' is difficult to associate in a way. It's all mostly 60, 70 or 80 years old for a start and the songs are about a time which very few living people can remember or make any connection with, but then they're mostly about being hurt by love or being generally badly done to, so I guess we can all relate to that in some way. Thing is, it's so old that none of us were around at the time so we all came to it at a much later time and we made it 'relevant', just like some modern kids will do, so I guess there is hope..

Well I personally feel that "The Wombling Song" defined the moment progressive rock transitioned from mainstream essential listening to underground scene that no "with it" teenager would ever admit to listening to, and was itself the harbinger of the ensuing dynamic punk rock movement. With its avant-garde costumes and hard-hitting lyrics blasting environmental waste blazing the trail for that next revolutionary genre, at a time when to all the world it seemed like UK rock would be marginalised by the bland and soporific "soul" from the US. Mike Batt never got the credit he deserved.

Cliff is far more relevant for, possibly, performing the first ever British R&R song >50 years ago. There's nothing he has done for the last 40 years, apart from that one with the Young Ones, that has inspired me. And he looks crap for his age.

The thing is, you don't need to have ever heard a note of original blues to understand its relevance, if you are interested in any study of the history of music. For instance, BB King, inventing the concept of lead guitar. Or, once you know what a blues scale is, or a 12 bar blues, then all of a sudden your eyes are opened and you can suddenly recognise the influence in a zillion great rock (and other) tracks. Not that you need to, but there's the relevance and will be, as long as they play rock'n'roll.


Irrelevant, surely?


Amen to that. They will if I ever get a chance to get in their ear

The overall thought on any type of music must be:

We are all prisoners of our own divise

Heheh, no, they'll have to catch me first!

I was a little beyond my teenage years back in the middle seventies, though IIRC, the difficulty with 'The Wombling Song' was that you couldn't bloody well avoid it if you turned the radio on. Mind, there [ihave[/i been a few like that..and the most embarrassing moments came when you found yourself whistling them - street cred down the pan, gone in a flash!!

I think FA, that there is far more which unites us than divides us..

Talking about muzos having to make a living, I happen to know that playing lead guitar on The Wombling Song was one Chris Spedding, yes, the "Motorbikin' " Chris Spedding. This guy played on Nilsson Schmilsson, featured heavily on Jeff Wayne's Musical Version of The War of the Worlds and played on the tour, he played lead guitar on Joan Armatrading's album Me Myself I, and loads of other stuff. And yes, I am a fan, and yes that's something to do with him being an old blues guy.

Chris in fact produced the Sex Pistols' "Pretty Vacant" (yes, really), and in 2011 got back with Martin Chambers (Pretenders) on drums, vocalist Stephen Parsons (ex Baker Gurvitz Army - if you don't know -look it up!) and Glen Matlock (Sex Pistols, co-writer of most of Never Mind The Bolloxks) on bass, to form [url=http://www.chrisspedding.com/session/kmob/kmob.htmKing Mob[/url, and if you haven't got their 2011 album Force 9, get on Amazon and spend that three quid, it'll be in your letterbox tomorrow and you won't be sorry.

Nor will you be if you click on the link for the video of "Selene Selene"

Aye, session musicians have to earn a crust. Truth is the Blues/jazz scene isn't the most lucrative of livings ('cept maybe for those at the [ivery[/i top) so playing sessions and production work is one way of keeping the (not Howlin') wolf from the door. In fact it's a pretty marginal one sometimes and I'm disappointed I won't be able to show my support and catch Martin Taylor and Tommy Emmanuel's Halifax concert together, in March, as I'll be in France to see the mighty Bulls. C'est la vie...as they say.

Never mind, you can always go and see Patti Smith at Haworth parsonage in April.

Oh, no, you can't, because you haven't got a ticket

Quick visit to Mr Google suggests Ms Smith might not be my type either, but of course, as with opera (which is also not my favourite music) it is my loss, not hers - so much music, so little time..

So true. Imagine being born in say 3012, what chance will they have with an extra thousand years of music to try to somehow assimilate?

I like a challenge, especially musical, so let me see if I can give you some food for thought; Patti Smith was really a songwriter, writer, activist and "punk poetess", more than an out and out performer, but her well-worn voice did suit a certain kind of track and while I don't have many albums of hers she did some great work, including one of my top ever tracks, which you can watch her perform live on the OGWT by typing
=#BF00BFPatti Smith - Because the Night - Live 1978
into a popular video search. (She and Springsteen co-wrote this)

Just one example of what she could do as a performer, which I think you'll be surprised by is a little-known acoustic cover:
=#804080Patti Smith - Smells Like Teen Spirit

She crops up unexpectedly all over the place. I have a few albums by the very underrated Blue Oyster Cult, so to give you both them and her, have a listen to
=#804080Blue Oyster Cult-The Revenge Of Vera Gemini
from the superb album Agents Of Fortune, the track opens with Patti doing some of her poetry.

I think Secret Treaties is a better album than Agents Of Fortune but both are worth a listen and a place in your collection.
Blue Oyster Cult are perhaps only best know for a single, "Don't Fear The Reaper", but that was far from either typical, or their best. I like to try to persuade people to give them a listen (with not much success I admit but still!) so if you can be arrsed and have the time some time, I'd recommend checking out tracks like [iETI, Astronomy[/i and [iME262[/i, with your volume turned up to 11.

Would be interested to know what you think if you get a chance

I have "Because the night" on a 7" single somewhere in the eaves, as well as several BOC vinyl albums (and CDs), and fully concur with that assessment...if that's enough to put Tigs or Bulliac off...

One of my favourite groups from my youth, seen them several times. I got into them when Ian Hunter wrote Going Through the Motions for their fab Spectres album. I think they were at their peak at that time & with Agents. My very favourite track though is Then Came the Last Days of May from their first album.

BTW, Patti Smith's version of Gloria is the only 12" single I have ever owned & is her best track that I have heard. The BOC connection is from her relationship with the late Allen Lanier IIRC, ex keyboardist, though I'm not sure if that developed from her song writing partnership.

Most, in fact nearly all, of my favourite bands feature a guitar virtuoso/exhibitionist (you can take your pick) and in particular I tend to admire those who are significantly better than me (which allows plenty of scope) from Django with the Hot club de France via Dire straits through White Stripes and John Williams and Sky to Chet Atkins, Frank Vignola, Les Paul, Tommy Emmanuel (who I may have mentioned before) The Rhythm Kings, Jools Holland's R&B Orchestra and really so so many more.

I love the blues. Country or urban, Lightin' Hopkins and Muddy Waters to the (slightly) more current people like Blues Boy himself (guess he's both old and new) Freddie King and Buddy Guy etc. I love big bands too, Buddy Rich, Count Basie (specially with Ella as vocalist) the magical Stan Kenton band, Ted Heath. Piano players like 'Fatha' Hines, Oscar Petersen, George Shearing, Bill Evans, Herbie Hancock, Jools Holland..............

Love classy vocals too, among others Diana Krall, Joss Stone, Nora Jones and the best of them all Bella Ella. Classical is also in my sights, especially big orchestral stuff I've seen all the usual suspects at one time or another though, for some unfathomable reason I've never seen my favourite piece (Mozart's Jupiter) done live, which I'd love to remedy.

To be honest all the above just scratches the surface of my musical 'likes', which are pretty eclectic to be fair and I promise I'll try to listen to Patti and the others you mention, though mentions of punk [iare[/i off-putting Lol..

At the moment there are some good documentary type progs about, last night I watched one on Sky Arts about the Hollies, and excellent and educational it was too. This is the sort of stuff I wish kids could be persuaded to watch, because you understand so much more then, and can gain an appreciation of the music and the people from a whole new perspective.

For example, Carrie-Ann was intended to be Marianne, after la Faithfull, but they bottled it; Jennifer Eccles was a totally dumbed down pop song done in 10 minutes with parts written by their wives etc., as a sort of reaction to being asked by the record company to concentrate on more basic, poppy, charts stuff - yet became one of their biggest hits; Stop Stop Stop was inspired by being invited somewhere in the US where the young ingenues were exposed to a fit belly dancer a foot or two from their table!

Or Graham Nash recalling how they paid a young session musician, Elton John, £12 to play keyboards on one of their biggest hits! Must-see TV, catch it this weekend if you can.

I saw that one as I was going through the channels but it was, well nearly half way through, so I didn't put it on. It is the sort of thing I like to see though so I'll definitely watch out for the next showing.

The world's greatest living guitarist, Richard Thompson, Leeds Irish Centre, 4th March.

World's greatest is a big pat on the back, TT.

Never sure how, or even if, you [ican[/i compare different players who have vastly differing styles. It's pretty hard to choose between classical, finger style players players like John Williams and Julian Bream with other pickers like Tommy Emmanuel, Richard Harding or Biréli Lagrène let alone plectrum style electric players, like leaving out maybe some more obvious names, Robben Ford, Larry Carlton or Pat metheny.

That said, there are a few of those who make me believe they are the 'best in the world' whilst they're on stage, I guess that's as near as it gets.

Obviously it's not really possible to prove who is the best, for the reasons you state. Thompson is as good as I have seen though.
Special mention should go to Sabbath's Tony Iommi who, if legend is correct, lost 2 of his fingertips on his last ever shift before turning pro in an industrial accident. For a while he played with false fingertips fashioned out of the ends of washing up liquid bottles.

I used to like Black Sabbath back in the day but didn't know that story, a bit Djangoesque, you might say. I remember seeing them live at the St George's in the early seventies and was impressed at the time. That was a super time though, there was some star musicians on every other week (or so it seemed!) Richie Blackmore, Paul Kossoff, Alvin lee..

Did anyone else see Ballad of Mott the Hoople on BBC4 last Friday (or Saturday)? I caught it on catch up last night; a brilliant story of one our greatest rock n roll bands & my favourite group of all time.

Never realised they were so big and prolific. All I'd heard of was All the young dudes via Bowie.