Exactly.

and a cup run thrown in too.

Ad hominem, as per usual. Is that really all you can do?

All pretty fair comment, though you'd need to take into account that Warrington achieved over 64% in 2006, under Cullen, and that's over a whole season.

Also an explanation would be needed (though not from you, as you make a similar point) as to how Cullen himself took a fast-disappearing Warrington team in dire straits in 2002 and steered it clear of relegation. Pretty much what is being said this year although Cullen had that greatly added 'relegation' pressure. Was he a good coach then but became a bad one? Seems to be doing OK now.

What point are you making here? I really don't get it.
Warrington have improved under Smith. Warrington did ok in previous years, but not as well as us, but they had a different coach then. Warrington are out performing us this season. Noone is holding up Wire as something we are aiming to be, but they have improved with a new coach. This season.
Why are you arguing?

If we want to aspire to be like someone, it should be KR or Hudds maybe. Their coaches seem to have an "average" squad of players performing to a higher level than they should.

Why is that?

Why do I have to be making a point? Can't I just be having a conversation?

Everyone is pretty much outperforming us this season.

I think the people arguing are ones who seem to have some childishly simplistic view that if we could just sack the coach it'd be all right and we'd be Champions again soon just like the recent good old days.

We should not aspire to be HKR or Shudds at all. I am certain they aspire to be us (though not this year, but still, as a club, and probably for the majority of our team). We should aspire to gradually build a squad, based on a blend of youth, home grown talent and experience and cunning imports, to try to find the elusive magic formula of once again becoming one of the top teams. We should aspire to nothing less.

Where I differ from a lot is that I have always seen this as a project to be measured in years, and with absolutely no certain outcome. Golden years are hard to achieve, some clubs never have them at all, and no-one has a right to them.

It would be nice to think that you could keep your club in the top 2 or 3 forever, regardless of re-building, but it's not possible, never has been, never will be.

So either we have a plan and stick with it or we disrupt the plan for some short-term "Warrington level" mediocre improvement. Sure they're doing better - but could hardly have been doing worse. Might we get a temporary mediocre improvement with a new coach factor? Very possibly yes. Is there a point to having a temprary improvement from crap to mediocrity? None at all, especially if it means disruption and sacrificing longer term objectives. Do I want a "Warrington 2009"-style quick fix? No, not at all.

Would a change in head coach mean that would happen? I don't think it would. Any new coach would be working with similar constraints as McNamara and the board could stipulate that they require junior football to be given the same amount of consideration.

Thats my thoughts exactly.

Haven't Leeds and Saints changed coaches and still carried on the junior development.

Spot on. If Hood wanted to change coach he would. Whether its down to financial constraints or something else i don't know, but it wouldn't be too hard to find another coach who could work just as well or better with the juniors and the junior system.

Does anyone know when Rinaldi's fit anyway?

I'd say both Leeds and St had more mature junior development systems so the transition was probably smoother. We've certainly taken steps to put in place the systems (Medley into head of junior development when Stuart Barrow came in) so we could be in a position to do that but nobody really knows how much work the head coach is putting in to junior development. What it would do is any new coach would have to become familiar with the juniors and that might slow down their progression to the first team.

Saints and Leeds have certainly been doing it for longer than us. I suppose there will always be some unknowns such as how much time McNamara is putting into the juniors though we were assured at the fans forum that savings would be made in other places in the business to ensure that the football side of things weren't impacted. Hopefully McNamara isn't being forced to do two jobs due to financial constraints. As for familiarity with the players that wouldn't take long given that all games are recorded.

Yeah but given everyone who wants a new coach is pointing at the performance of the first team as the reason to change you'd expect that would be a priority for any incoming coach rather than reviewing junior games.

How do you know? What if in fact McNamara is far better in that respect than anyone else, or at least as good as anyone available? To say it "wouldn't be too hard to find" is making a statement as if it is a known fact, but it most certainly isn't.

FWIW the only direct evidence that I know of is the numerous comments I've heard and read over these past couple of years in relation to signing promising juniors and these all seemed to have referred to McNamara in the most glowing terms.

So I can't sy for sure, but I reckon maybe it would be a damn sight harder than you think.

We have had academy squads just as long as Leeds and Saints so I don't understand your point.

I think he means Leeds and Saints have been taking them seriously.

We have contary to what the club is trying to spin.

Aye. They've had more success with there's in recent years compared with us.

Whether we can match their performance in the years to come remains to be seen but if you believe all the stuff coming from the club we certainly should have something to show for it soon.

Exactly investing more effort and money over a longer time.

I read an interview with Heth****ton about when he took over the club in (i think) 96 and how they started seriously on the junior development track then. See how long that took to bear fruit.

That's rubbish. The problem here was the club wasted money on lads who were never going to be good enough.

Edited.

We always have matched their performance in junior development.

So you're saying they put the money in but didn't get quality resources in either scouting (poor quality recruitment) and/or coaching (insufficient resources) for that investment?

There are a number of clubs who have produced a long line of local talent - they tend to be towns where RL is king - Cas, Fev, Wigan, Hull. I'm not sure that is naturally the case at Leeds & Saints, they have had to work at it. Certainly when they were struggling in the 80s & 90s there was nowhere near the home grown talent there is now. I'm not sure Bradford made the most of their success since SL, it will definitley be more difficult attracting talent when there are currently more successful clubs within 15 miles.

It was a scouting problem.