suppose thats the point of having a deadline. They've never extended early bird deadline for season tickets either. If they extend it now then they will have problem next year of people waiting till after deadline and assuming they will do an extension which affects clubs cashflow. Theres still enough of a saving that anyone who's missed out would still save significantly over walking up on the day so whilst there will probably be some grumbling I'd still expect to sell a fair few more.

Because they had a deadline that was pretty well publicised. If anyone "forgot" or couldn't be @rsed going up there before that deadline, then there's only one person to blame and it isn't anyone at the club.

I'd say anyone who pledged and hasn't yet paid should be allowed to still have the £60, as they'd previously said they would. But anyone who didn't pledge and didn't buy one before the deadline has missed their chance. How long do the club go on for? Keep extending it by a few weeks every time the deadline passes and make the deadline look a completely pointless exercise?

You could argue that it's either £60 or nothing, but that same argument goes if someone turns up at the ticket office and asks for a season ticket for £30. They'd be told no, they cost £120. So they leave. By your logic, it's £30 or nothing, so £30 is better.

10300 tickets doesn't equate to a minimum 10300 for ever game as a lot of those tickets will be family tickets so that's even more people. Then add on the visiting fans and Odsal will be packed out

I cannot actually wait for this season to began now!

You would hope so, but a £60 ticket will also enable people to pick and choose the games they attend and not have "lost" money by not going. I already know due to family commitments there is no chance of me making every home game, which is why I didn't buy a season ticket last year, but I can buy one this year, make the games i can, but not lose out if I miss a few.

true but at least if people pick and choose games the club gets the money anyway. Also not sure what rules are with regards to reporting attendance. I know some clubs announce season tickets as attending whether they turn up or not. Not sure whether we're going to go down that route or announce actual attendances.

I've said before, I think all clubs do that. If you've bought a ticket, you're counted on the attendance figure.

Otherwise you'd never get a sell out as there's always at least one person with a ticket who couldn't get there for whatever reason.

Congratulations, I am glad for Bradford that after the 10,600 or so pledged that 10,300 bought tickets. It would be interesting to see how many of the original pledgers didn't follow through.

While it is a good acheivement that deserves celebrating and one that ensures big healthy crowds in Odsal again it is not really great financially.

10,300 tickets at £60 is only equivalent to Hull selling 3000, Leeds selling 3100, Wigan selling 3200 and Saints selling 3300 of their standard early bird tickets and given that these clubs will sell between 2 and 3 times as many, in monetary terms its far from perfect for 2011 the biggest thing for Bradford is to make sure they entertain on the pitch enough to ensure they all come back (and if possibly grow in number) over the next 3-5 years at normal early bird prices.

I sincerely hope it works but the job has only just started.

not sure if RFL will allow it though as regards the licensing criteria if theres and obvious discrepancy between physical and announced attendances. Other benefit for club is if theres bad weather and people dont turn up then club still gets the money which has been an obvious problem last few years given our lack off a roof.

nice attempt at a troll. shame those 10,300 arent all at the headline £60 price point. I'll let someone else do the math for you to show the actual income is much higher than the amount you think. Put it this way the main stand has pretty much sold out and you dont seats for £60

OK, for (hopefully) the last time...

1 - We haven't sold 10,300 at £60. We've sold 10,300 ADULT tickets at £60 OR ABOVE. Tickets for the stand were £99 and as has been mentioned these have sold extremely well. And there's the junior tickets to put on top of that as well.
2 - It's not the same as selling 3,000 normal price tickets because more supporters through the gate means more shirt/merchandise/programme/beer sales.
3 - 10,000 season tickets sold should increase sponsorship opportunities.
4 - The club have a much more valuable marketing database.

I think that's enough for now.

I think that's grossly unfair. I have exactly the same thoughts/concerns. While in no way criticising the Bulls initiative, & I am sure Bradford have carefully done the maths, I cannot see how on the face of it 8,000 attendees @ c£20 @ 13 games equates to 11,000 @ c£80. Obviously there will be additional walk up revenue & day sales. But I'm not sure how much of that the Bulls will see as most of the latter will go in the pockets of the stall holders.

I know it counts for a lot but its a bit simplistic to quantify the success of this scheme on purely financial grounds. The feel good factor right now is huge. I feel genuine excitement at the season ahead, due in no small part to the fact that Odsal will be buzzing again with healthy crowds.

All in all, a lot of use feel a warm glow and real sense of pride towards our club for daring to innovate. That's worth almost as much as the wonga surely?

It already has done.

Money in bank - certainty of a core income stream.

Main sponsor (previously in serious doubt) renewed (and other deals in progress) on the back of the crowd turnround.

Better terms with concession holders being negotiated on back of larger crowds

Club much better positioned to sell corporate and hospitality facilities

VAT rise beaten - club keeps more.

Massively imnproved and updated marketing database

Real buzz around the place again.

etc.

Remember we will still get further season tickets sold (including some at least of the pledge "waverers" plus the away support plus the walk-ins - of which there will still be quite a few, and increasing as we start winning more games...



Compared to where we would likely have been had nothing changed, the club will be much better off.

Incidentally: I paid £99 for a seat that last year cost me (IIRC) £196. Saved just under 50%. This year season ticket sales approx twice last year's, and its already clear a big chunk of the increase is for the stand, so by extension (remember savings on concessions, premier club etc are much less than 50% c/w last year) I'd expect season ticket income will probably be at least the same as last year overall, and MUCH higher than would otherwise have been the case. Before all the additional income the bigger crowds will generate.

The hard work continues; but the hardest job of all has already been done.

I agrre, & I am slightly excited about visiting Odsal next year myslef. But a warm glow & pride don't pay the bills. I feel that emotion from the speccies at places like Cougars but it hardly is sustaining.
Adey's post is what I was wanting to see.

This post needs to be a sticky

Wrong assumption though about the 8,000 @ £20. I sit in the main stand, and paid £15/game last season. Terracing early birds will have paid a fair bit less. And kids/seniors less again. Adult stand walk-ins may have paid a bit over £20 for a game, but they will have been a small minority. Make it maybe £11-£12 a game and you are likely nearer, given we'd still have had a core season ticket take up from the die-hard fans. I know it would be nowhere near £20 from previous discussions.

8,000 (your number) at £12 @ 13 = £1,248k

10,300 (min - will increase) at £80 (your number) = £824k plus maybe 2,500 walk-in and away support (847,000 when HKR come) @ say £18 = £585k total = £1,409k.

Allowing for the invariable guesses and approximations, surely the above suggests we are unlikley to be any WORSE off?

And as for the stall-holders, the only third party ones are for the food concession - and they will be paying rather more than they would have been given the higher crowds so a reasonable chunk still reverts to the club. The drinks and merchandise, raffles, programmes etc are of course all for the club.

Then we get the impact on sponsorship and corporate income. And the "14th man" effect (yes, even at Odsal...!)

I'm one of your more prudent accountants, but even I can see only financial upsides in what the club has done.

Reasonable, but I think you are a bit out with your £11/12. IIRC it was £18 on the gate + upgrade to sit down. I don't know how many eseason tickets were sold last year but I would guess a few thousand each game paid on the gate. If I am wrong, I am very happy to be.

£18 on the gate - not that many upgraded at all - the queue at the upgrade turnstile was always virtually non-existent.

Much less than £18 on the gate for kids and seniors.

Less - much less in many cases- than £18 for most season ticket holders, especially those who availed themselves of the "early bird" pricing or were kids or seniors.

Try as I might, I get nowhere near your £20. And the figure I quoted was not miles out from something I learned in discussion with the club a bit ago. Even if it was say £14, you end up with a total gate receipts little different to my estimate for post-pledge. And if my £12 (or £14) is too low, then so is my £18.

So I remain largely un-moved.

Excellent post adey, but this is the key point for me that anyone who is not sure about the scheme should consider, we were in danger of being locked into a year on year decline in attendances and income which could have fed itself into an irreversable downward spiral, less fans > less money > less quality on the pitch> less fans>..etc.

As it is the club will be financially more stable for the season (cash up front) and we've broken that decline...for the moment at least, we now need to back it up on the pitch and introduce an upwards spiral. The club should be applauded for this initiative.

You are right about my £20 being wrong. I had forgotten you sold any season tickets (must be the excitement of a royal wedding) & was asssuming everyone in the seats upgraded. Apart from that my logic is irrefutable.

Honestly no trolling at all, thank you for explaining it but still I'm not sure how it is quite the financial boom being suggested by some on here.

I was wrongly under the impression that the pledge meant that if 10,000+ pledged they would be able to buy season tickets at £60 and that this 10,300 being reported were those people buying tickets at the pledge price not ALL the tickets that have been sold with varying pledge prices. However I did base the other clubs on their cheapest season tickets sales only, not including the tickets sold at higher prices, Leeds / Wigan must have about 8,000 standard adult tickets not including better seating/family sales etc...

1. What difference is 10,300 compared to 2010 seating & standing? What were the prices? If season tickets were £180-£220 for last year then at £60 & £99 in 2011 you'd need to sell roughly 14,000 to guarantee equivalent income, obviously less allowing for a dramatic additional consumable sales but that amount cannot be guaranteed.

2. Granted they will buy more consumables, but how many is only an estimate
3. This should go up but again its by no means a guarantee with in general sponosrship money dropping
4. Bigger numbers yes, but again only potential income/profits - that is as I put at the bottom about making these returning customers, one seasoners won't buy too much merchandise.

Thanks for clearing it up better, I wasn't trolling and genuinely as i've said I hope it works.

And Adeybull, I couldn't agree more about if nothing had been done the turnaround in enthusiam is similar to the change between 1994 and 1996 I am genuinely please for you and regardless its more than money in the short term its a snowball effect, more fans, better atmosphere, more income, better players, more success, even more fans....

Irrefutable TT? That's not a word which is applied very often to arguments on here


I think we have to look at your £20 as being the foundation of the whole edifice and we all know what happens to arguments built on shaky foundations.....................

can't answer the other bits but from memory the cheapest standing s.ticket was £159 which is the equivalent of the £60 one this year so about a 63% saving. The seating equivalent was £199 which has dropped to £99 so about a 50% saving. the more expensive the package the less the saving iirc.
As I said because the seats arent much more theres been quite a large number who've upgraded and gone in stand this year.

You have to bear in mind as well that nobody knows the amount of junior tickets with family packages or with an individual adult have been sold. Any ideas 3K maybe