I can think of at least one very good reason why none of us knew this was North Korea.

I get where you are coming from but lets just wait and see what the RFL have to say next. They will inevitably volunteer or be pressured into explaining the logic behind the deal in detail. Then you can all decide whether it makes sense.

Is it that the RFL just bought a stadium with regimented waving of flags and the applause of the people piped through the tannoy?

You mean their spin as that is what the RFL excel at big time.
Rewind to the Crusaders and all that bull and many more like Millenium Magic we could go on and on.
They are always right and never wrong.
Too much control in so few hands, its sad our game is owned by a man who hardly played the game and ran a club (sadly ours) very badly for only a few years so is not a true RL man like say Alex Murphy.

You mean their spin as that is what the RFL excel at big time.
Rewind to the Crusaders and all that bull and many more like Millenium Magic we could go on and on.
They are always right and never wrong.
Too much control in so few hands, its sad our game is owned by a man who hardly played the game and ran a club (sadly ours) very badly for only a few years so is not a true RL man like say Alex Murphy.

Its not its England but the world of RL is like North Korea, in the hands of a few who have TOTAL control.

Both Wakey and Crusaders were done a HUGE favour by the RFL:

1 - the points deductions were seen by most as being extremely generous. They could have been far far worse.

2 - the RFL allowed two totally NEW entities to take the place of the entities that had gone bust. They could have said start again at the bottom, and let the likes of Leigh (and Starbug...heaven help us...) and Fax in.

3 - the RFL turned a totally blind eye (beyond the points deduction) to the loss to the taxpayer and other creditors when the two clubs went bust. They COULD have insisted that the new clubs make arrangements to honour the third party debts of the old.

4 - the RFL allowed new management to take on the running of SL clubs, with no previous track record. They could have insisted that the new owner/managers had previous SL experience.

5 - in the case of Crusaders, they provided financial and management support.

The RFL could have made it extremely difficult for either NEW club to get off the ground and (in these cases) straight into SL. But they did the opposite.

Like they did previously with Hull and London and Hudds etc.

And doubtless it is for the same kind of reasons that they now appear to be making it easier for Bradford, too, to retain their SL place?

Incidentally, so far I have been assuming that the RFL has taken over the long lease on the stadium. Since, last I heard, we still had the long lease and Peter Hood kept reminding us that that was tantamount to freehold.

IF it transpires that that long lease no longer existed (as I have seen some claim because the Bulls had previously surrendered it presumably for cash), then we are in totally different territory. Totally different.

You would hope we will get some more meat on the bones over the coming days?

Well Adey I'm sure you will be at Odsal Weds eve and get some more details!

Leigh are you kidding. Have you not monitored their financial difficulties?
Also franchises are supposed to be run like businesses hence the fit to run a business test that mr glover passed plus with knowledge he had money to invest. We were also told that creditors were all paid.

[url=http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/rugby_league/4083298/Its-an-Ods-on-winner.html=#800000The mists clear a bit.[/url

I know its The Sun, but this report appears to indicate:

1 - that Bulls have indeed (as I was surmising) sold the long lease to the RFL. Nothing directly to do with the Council.

2 - that the RFL paid the Bulls a substantial sum for the lease - presumably in exchange for the future rental income stream. You could say a bit like a loan, with cash up front now when needed.

3 - that Mr Hood is implying that the Bulls' finances have been seriously hit because of the recession, and this deal provides a short-term fix while a longer-term solution is worked on.

4 - that the "predators" were seemingly targeting US, not the Council, to surrender the lease and leave the Council free to sell the land to them for development.

Doubtless there will be much more yet, but - if factual (and OK, I know "Factual" and "Sun" is usually considered an oxymoron) - then it seems to start answering some of the key questions that the stunned fans have been asking?

Or another way of looking at it, Bradford Bulls blackmail RFL into million pound loan, or SL loses a club in May

By the way, Adey you have no idea of my opinions of Leigh and SL, we are not and never will be a viable SL franchisee, much like the Bradford Bulls it would seem

You don't sell a lease, you "assign" it, you have to have the landlord's consent, in general such consent not to be unreasonably withheld.


That's the way I see it too. Also the landlord IIRC gets the income from the catering concessions including bars? And presumably as landlord, the RFL can get to stage whatever it wants at Odsal, and gets the "free" use of the Coral facility.


Yes, reading between the lines, the suggestion is that without this deal, Odsal may [inot[/i have been preserved as a RL venue, and that without this deal, the club's immediate future might [inot[/i have been secure.


Those are just the sort of scenarios that we have all been worried about for ages, and Hood has always seemed to be inclined to try to stay at odsal if at all possible. Great result for him to have secured that. So far as the jealous whingers on here are concerned, they can all shut the fsck up



as the deal is already done, you're shouting abuse at the bus driver but he can't hear you and you missed it.

Anyone - even Hetherington - would if they are reasonable agree that to preserve the iconic Odsal Stadium, and even secure the future of one of the marquee clubs of SL, is a reasonable thing for the RFL to achieve, if by doing so they don't favour Bradford against other clubs. It sounds to me as if the deal will have been very carefully costed, and I'd bet that the accountants wil have ensured that the RFL are on the right side of the financial equation. We, on the other hand, may not have had much choice, and no doubt have paid a price, over the longer term, to secure the position in the immediate term.

All of which seems fair enough to me. And Wakefield? Do me a favour. WTF would the RFL, or anyone, want with Belle Vue? I mean, be reasonable. Be that as it may, though, the probability is that this deal was thought up by, brokered and inspired by the Bulls, and Hood in particular. I would be interested to know whether a deal identical in effect was ever put to the RFL by previous administrations of the whingers. If they didn't come up with it, they were never refused it, and you can only have great admiration for the Bulls for pulling this off.

It's Sir Peter for me, from this day on.

Starbug - I'm glad you refrained from calling me "thick", Stupid" and "a liar" on here, as well as insulting Bradford generally, like you did on the VT. When all it seems I was was...right.

I'd be careful throwing words like "Blackmail" about, too, though.

Unlike you, seemingly, I'll apologise if I make a mistake. One such mistake is to mix you up with that obsessed Leyther idiot on TotalRL (forgot his name) who is totally obsessed with stadia as being the be-all and end-all of SL Licensing, and wages a one-man crusade against Bradford and our stadium. Although its perhaps because you both seem to be stuck to varying extents on "transmit", you usually talk reasonable sense and what you say is worth reading. He usually talks out of his backside. To the extent I was confusing you in my mind with him, I apologise. No-one deserves that comparison!

And FA: we both know the technical legal term and form is "assign" - that is why I used the word "assign" in various posts. We also both know that, for a long lease, the substance is that you sell the interest. As I explained on the VT, all those on here who own or are buying a house or (more usually) flat held on long (say 100 years plus) leasehold will still describe themselves as having "bought" the house or flat, rather than having had a lease assigned to them - will they not? For which reason, I do not believe the RFL wording was especially disingenuous.

As for what the lease between the Council and the RFL entitles the RFL to - that will rather be a matter for the sub-lease between the RFL and the Bulls? If the substance of the deal is a loan to the Bulls, then you would assume it is as simple as possible? Bulls pay the rent, and Bulls do pretty well what they want?

And a final thought.

If the Sun report is anything like accurate, whilst most of us realise the Bulls' finances have been and remain very tight indeed, and the recession will not be helping one bit, why would we suddenly need to find a 7-figure sum at short order?

My guess?

HMRC.

Remember what PH said at the last forum? Agreement reached, but still had to pay it?

If so, our circumstances are almost unique in the SL, in that we have neither a sugar daddy nor have already gone bust and so wiped the slate clean (as London, Wakey and Widnes have). And we are not subject to the French tax system, and we do not have even a mini-sugar daddy like HKR and Salford, which clubs surely muct anyway have much lower exposures? With the possible exception of Cas, which other club is at serious risk of being wiped out by a substantial tax settlement for image rights etc?

And so, any protective action by the RFL would likewise have to be almost unique?

You heard it here first.

More Clarifacation in the latest update www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/s ... m/?ref=rss

More Clarifacation in the latest update www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/s ... m/?ref=rss

[url=http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/sport/9490230.RFL_s_surprise_swoop_to_buy_Odsal_Stadium/T&A report on RFL surprise swoop[/url

"Hood told the Telegraph & Argus:
“The Bulls approached the RFL with the idea, which was subsequently explored and developed over several months."

"It’s a deal that the RFL has done on its own merits and in the interests of the wider game.

“We have sold them our lease for a capital sum and then we have entered into a new agreement to rent the ground back from them. "

"There is not a downside to this deal as far as we are concerned. "

"RFL chairman Richard Lewis said: “We have paid market value for the stadium and the Bulls will pay market-value rental to the RFL to play their home fixtures at Odsal.” "


So, good for us, good for the RFL. Thats all I'm interested in, excellent news this. hopefully we'll get some more detail tonight and/or at the forum.

i am Nigel Wood

the deal also means that another liability, contingent, did not crystalise, ie repayment to the Council if the bulls played less than 90% of their home games at Odsal through to 2019. So as Adey says, it could mean both that the tax liability has been covered, and no council repayments are triggered. if so, then Hood has engineered an honourable way out of a massive financial squeeze instead of going bust and starting up again as Bulls 2012 or whatever. and I would be annoyed with Caisley for whining about how the settlement income was being accounted for, when there were much more immediate funding issues to be settled.

Forgive my stupidity if this is a stupid question, but I assume the Coral stand etc now belongs to the RFL?

think as time goes by there will be more developments on this

do the RFL rent Red Hall?

if the answer is yes, expect rugby league headquarters to be housed in bradford

After hearing hood and rfl comments on radio Leeds this morning done sense is starting emerge. Adey was spot on about it being the long lease rather than the land that the rfl bought.
Also it's not rocket science to work out what the predatory approach was that been referred to. Seems a reference to Parkin takeover bid.

How does this scenario sound. Parkin gets stakes in bulls and city. Moves us to vp as short term measure while a new stadium is built. Then sells odsal lease to his logistics firm and they develop land close to motorway network for logistics use. New stadium gets quietly shelved and were stuck at city subsidising their rent. Parking, whose main interest was always soccer, reduces costs at city and gets a new site for his logistics firm at a stroke.

This sounds like a very good bit of business, not just for the Bulls but the RFL too. Clearly other clubs will hate us (particularly Wakefield and Castleford) and it seems a little unfair in some respects although the circumstances should be taken on their merits.

I can see the potential in developing Odsal as the rugby league headquarters in the future. Stadium development investment would be (slightly) easier to come by if there was the promise of showpiece matches there on a regular basis. Red Hall would make a great block of apartments; prime real estate in the Leeds suburbs. I think this is the long-term vision.

Yes, Odsal's a tip at the moment but with investment in covered stands the potential is still massive. The new Twickers.

It really seems hard to underestimate the significance of this, and especially now PH has confirmed the key part about the capital sum.

It seems like, at a stroke, PH and his team have managed to shift the mother of all financial monkeys off our back. I was really very worried about where the cash that PH said at the last forum to settle with HMRC was to come from. You can only spend pledge cash once, after all. And I was worried about one or two points in the last set of financials, not least a particular assurance that only ran until the end of the last calendar year. I suspect it is not at all unreasonable to expect that this action has addressed those concerns, and at the same time put paid to what seemed an increasing chance that we would have to move to VP (and IMO probable oblivion if we did). Given that it would now seem there has been considerable pressure on the club over a VP move, that has to be a pretty important move to stymie those attempts.

OK, the deal is probably not a permanent solution - but it sounds like it should see us through the continuing recessionary period when we are most vulnerable.

There will be more to come out, I'm sure, so lets await a bit more detail for a definitive response. But it does seem like the club has pulled off a quite stunning win, very much against the run of play. It MUST be a stunning win, if all the vitriol from elsewhere is anything to go by. Quite like the old days, in fact! As I said when I first heard the news confirmed, I am considerably more confident about the immediate future now now than before. And especially so now we have a bit more of the detail. Someone looks to have played a blinder here.



And I suspect Mat is very much on the right lines above - would not have been the first time Bulls were stitched up to try and save City.