Best piece from Connor for ages IMO. And not just saying that because I agree with all of it!

Finally a critical piece. A very good piece of sports journalism from Connor.

I like the article although I think he could have pointed the finger more at certain players (lynch and hargreaves etc)

I have one issue RE Herbert/ HB situation and would like to know others thoughts. If it is agreed that he is a better SO and we are lacking the organising SH, has Herbert shown more than BJ for the SO role. Herbert is 24 and has shown v good glimses of what we will want from a SO if we sign an organising scrum half. I just dont see BJ EVER leading us to top 4, whereas Herbert can/is improving and his game could kick us on with the right HB partner and some more effective weapons on the fringes. Thoughts?

agree with that re herbert. think herbert may have to be sacrificed to get us the organising half though assuming we have to go overseas. if it was straight preference I'd stick with herbert over jeffries but jeffries has advantage of not counting on quota.

I'd sooner sacrifice Ah Van to be honest. Ah Van started well but has got worse IMO, albeit not necessarily playing in his best position. What he offers could be offered by others, including the goal kicking. So, if it comes down to a choice between the two, then I'd be looking ot keep Herbert.

this is exactly my thought process. An upgrade for Herbert will cost $$$ and a quota when Ah Van has done nothing to suggest he cant be replaced relatively cheaply or with youngsters. Wing is an easy position to fill, and we have 2 others in the role that most people on here rate. herbert is the best we have in his position, is improving and it is the most difficult position to recruit.

Wouldnt argue with that. But I suspect ah van is going anyway to accomodate another . just get impression he was given chance to make a spot his own and him being moved back to wing says he's failed (combined with way his performances have dropped off last few weeks). Hence if we want a half too then herbert has to go too unless we can fill one off the /half spots with a uk player.

good points here. thinking about it, we MAY be better doing that if we can get a top class centre as that would be a massive improvement, and jeffries isnt massively worse than herbert although there is no potential with him. I will be very happy if it pans out that we have to let Herbert and Ah Van go for a top drawer centre and half.

there maybe more chance of geeting uk player for the spot than the halves one meaning we'd only need to lose one off ah van/herbert to fill the two positions. wonder if theres any mileage in platt/sykes plus cash to salford for ratchford?. wire seem to have gone a bit cool on him and salford fans dont seem over enthused about patten at FB. ratchford obviously isnt finished article but probably one of better british prospects who could be available.

ive heard that ratchford was wanted by saints and wigan as well as wire plus i thought he was ooc so its more a matter of where he wants to go not what salford accept. id sign matty blythe from wire personally

This article fails to get to the root of the problem - lack of control when in possession, handling errors, penalties and poor defense. The poor handling and poor discipline made sure the Bulls would be doing a mountain of defense in the second half against Cas. Herbert put on the first 3 tries and had a hand in the fourth. When the forwards completed their sets and we had good field position the halves were great. In the second half the team would have got to their kick on only a few occasions and gave Cas too much ball from stupid penalties and poor ball control. I saw Herbert actually pushing forwards into position and Kearney was yelling at them from behind. No leadership team can get the job done when the troops hand the ball back easily. This is not a game of ' first to 40 ' but it appears the bulls need to have playmakers who can put on 40 points to win, as the ball control and defense is atrocious . I haven't seen Connor do an article on why the forwards are so well beaten most weeks and why the team concedes over 30 points a game. Herbert, Jeffries and Kearney were responsible for, or had a hand in, all the tries last game resulting in 30 points. What more do they have to do before the criticism stops.time to have a serious discussion about the lack of starch in the forwards and why the defensive systems don't work.

Doesn't he mention the defensive problems and the lack of leadership and dynamism alongside Diskin? I thought he did but you're not wrong in reiterating our pack has been poor all year. Plus nobody is criticisng Kearney.

because Kearney has done nothing wrong -_-

At last someone with a bit of sense!

Plus Kearney had the heat taken off him in his first year by having Orford around (or convalescing in aus), and then we had someone to blame when it all went tits up again, Herbert hasn't had such luxury's to bed into the team!

I'd let ah van go and keep Herbert, Herbert can kick as well?

But again last year Kearney still didn't need Orford to take heat off him, because he was class anyway -_-

Herbert is far from Kearney's standerd.

Did anyone think the little-known Mick Withers was Sprogger's standard (or better...) when he joined us (as a spindly 3/4)?

Did anyone think the unknown Shonny would become one of the top centres in the world when he joined us?

And they joined a team that was at the peak of the game, where we were strong in most areas, and therefore where their initial performances would not attarct the degree of expectation and responsibility that Herbert's have.

Equally, they did not join a team where there was a huge hole to be filled immediately, the consequences of not doing so being pretty serious.

Without passing judgment one way or the other on Herbert, can I suggest a little more open-mindedness and a little more objectivity might not necessarily be a bad thing?

herbert is the a great example of a scapegoat. he has suffered due to our pack being poor and laying a e platform, thus effecting his time on the ball and making us look slow.

he has one of the poorest backlines in the league with players constantly out of position making us look unorganised.

we have had unsettled hb partnerships.

the guy gives a good flat ball, decent assists, improving kicking game and strong D

id give him another yearwith a better back line if he still doesn't perform bye bye, briggs and Jeffries halfbacks with Southernwood as cover

I dont see a problem with herbert he seems to be getting better over the last few weeks especially, and i cant fault the guy against Cas - not sure its entirely fair giving the blame to these unheard of players because of how were playing, behind a good forward pack herbert can play well,

And as for Lynchy dont get me wrong i like him and just on his stats alone he is a workhorse BUT........... i dont think he is captain material, he didnt seem to be saying much when the team congregated behind the sticks after a Cas score

Well seeing everyone is on the back of Herbert. The guy is FAR from the worst player we have yet most seem to have the knives out for him.

Personally I would get rid of plenty before Herbert.

indeed. to be a success, it seems, you've got to score 50 points a game and miss no tackles.

The thing is that there are too many sheep on here who just follow what certain people and agree with them because they must be too afraid to speak their own mind for fear of reprisals. They bag Herbert because everyone else seems to do so so they can join that cosy little group.

A sad indictment of this board.

Don't get me wrong I like the guy, I just feel he's at the right team at the wrong time if you get me. He is improving but I rekon we need someone who is always good, a Briers, or a Brough, or even a Dureau. With Herbert I feel we arn't getting that flair a halfback needs.

I think herbert would look outstanding in catalans team and I'm confident dureau wouldn't look as good in our team....