I wanted to watch this game but the supporters coaches didn't turn on time again

Stand off and Full Back are completly different to Centre.

The squad the Bulls U20's have is a good one, however maybe it's a case of gelling, one week no Addy the next no O'Brien. Very unsettled in my opinion.

The vast majority of the side has been the same every week.

Hence the word maybe -_-

While I'm not making excuses for the poor results the under 20s have been having, consider the players that are now missing from our under 20s side for one reason or another:

Crookes (Sheff)
Finnigan (Sheff)
Hellewell (Wire)
Wardle (Hudds)
G Burgess (Souths)
Olbison (1st team)

Should be doing a bit better than this but remember it's not so much about results as it is providing good players for the 1st team. So far Olbison has come in and looked the part this year so I've no complaints.

This is what Medley said at the fans forum - although you'd hope they start to win a few. From watching the Bull builder the U20 Cas game looked well winnable but thats from the highlights

It was a good game, although when I've seen the U20's this year I seem to get the impression they can't tackle!!

They let teams escape their 20-30m try time far too easily, when a team goes wide, they struggle to slide and they concede "schoolboy" tries.

I think the gulf between U20's and SL is pretty clear for all to see, i wasn't bothered about letting players go out on duel registrations but my mind has changed on that this season, as it must be a step up!

Taken from here: www.therfl.co.uk/matchday/results/report?6468 St Helens 36 T: Makinson 2, Atherton, Eastmond, Thompson, Jones G: Makinson 6 Bradford Bulls 14 T: Bateman, Hawthorne, Straughan G: Addy H.T. 24-0 St. Helens : Tommy Johnson; Simon Atherton, Josh Jones, Tommy Makinson, Dan Brotherton; Kyle Eastmond, Ben Karalius; Jordan Hand, Aaron Lloyd, Warren Thompson, Andrew Dixon, Danny Jones, Jordan Case. Subs. Marcus Baines, Joe Bate, Anthony Walker, Joe Greenwood. Bradford : Kyle Williamson; Ethan Hawksworth, John Bateman, Rob Hawthorne, Lewis Straughan; Kyle Briggs, Cain Southernwood; Tom Burgess, Adam O’Brien, Steve Crossley, Iain Sibbitt, James Donaldson, Danny Addy. Subs. Tom Lillycrop, Liam McKay, Lewis Reid, Callum Windley.

Taken from here: www.therfl.co.uk/matchday/results/report?6468 St Helens 36 T: Makinson 2, Atherton, Eastmond, Thompson, Jones G: Makinson 6 Bradford Bulls 14 T: Bateman, Hawthorne, Straughan G: Addy H.T. 24-0 St. Helens : Tommy Johnson; Simon Atherton, Josh Jones, Tommy Makinson, Dan Brotherton; Kyle Eastmond, Ben Karalius; Jordan Hand, Aaron Lloyd, Warren Thompson, Andrew Dixon, Danny Jones, Jordan Case. Subs. Marcus Baines, Joe Bate, Anthony Walker, Joe Greenwood. Bradford : Kyle Williamson; Ethan Hawksworth, John Bateman, Rob Hawthorne, Lewis Straughan; Kyle Briggs, Cain Southernwood; Tom Burgess, Adam O’Brien, Steve Crossley, Iain Sibbitt, James Donaldson, Danny Addy. Subs. Tom Lillycrop, Liam McKay, Lewis Reid, Callum Windley.

Quote ="Blotto"Taken from here: www.therfl.co.uk/matchday/results/report?6468 St Helens 36 T: Makinson 2, Atherton, Eastmond, Thompson, Jones G: Makinson 6 Bradford Bulls 14 T: Bateman, Hawthorne, Straughan G: Addy H.T. 24-0 St. Helens : Tommy Johnson; Simon Atherton, Josh Jones, Tommy Makinson, Dan Brotherton; Kyle Eastmond, Ben Karalius; Jordan Hand, Aaron Lloyd, Warren Thompson, Andrew Dixon, Danny Jones, Jordan Case. Subs. Marcus Baines, Joe Bate, Anthony Walker, Joe Greenwood. Bradford : Kyle Williamson; Ethan Hawksworth, John Bateman, Rob Hawthorne, Lewis Straughan; Kyle Briggs, Cain Southernwood; Tom Burgess, Adam O’Brien, Steve Crossley, Iain Sibbitt, James Donaldson, Danny Addy. Subs. Tom Lillycrop, Liam McKay, Lewis Reid, Callum Windley.'" to be fair 7 of them are pushing for the 1st team..... not looking to good

Quote ="Blotto"Taken from here: www.therfl.co.uk/matchday/results/report?6468 St Helens 36 T: Makinson 2, Atherton, Eastmond, Thompson, Jones G: Makinson 6 Bradford Bulls 14 T: Bateman, Hawthorne, Straughan G: Addy H.T. 24-0 St. Helens : Tommy Johnson; Simon Atherton, Josh Jones, Tommy Makinson, Dan Brotherton; Kyle Eastmond, Ben Karalius; Jordan Hand, Aaron Lloyd, Warren Thompson, Andrew Dixon, Danny Jones, Jordan Case. Subs. Marcus Baines, Joe Bate, Anthony Walker, Joe Greenwood. Bradford : Kyle Williamson; Ethan Hawksworth, John Bateman, Rob Hawthorne, Lewis Straughan; Kyle Briggs, Cain Southernwood; Tom Burgess, Adam O’Brien, Steve Crossley, Iain Sibbitt, James Donaldson, Danny Addy. Subs. Tom Lillycrop, Liam McKay, Lewis Reid, Callum Windley.'" to be fair 7 of them are pushing for the 1st team..... not looking to good

I'd say at least 9 would be fighting for a first team place out of that squad.

The more interesting observation one could make, is when a new Coach comes in they may change the way the teams play by altering the systems of play from the previous Coach which I suspect is the case here, while the the first team squad have had the intensity of pre season to come to grips with the changes, the Academy sides are going to take longer. That said, I would say Royce Simmons hasn't changed too much of what Mick Potter had in place at Stains and that would make it easier all round for them!

Not true actually. Under Potter, even when we had our first choice halfbacks on the pitch, we tended to attack down the middle quite a lot and score many of our tries from within 10m. It became utterly tedious towards the end of the 2009 season. We have been changing in that direction, in spite of our halfback issues, since Simmons took over. We are passing the ball wide more often now, although it is going to take time for the team to readjust.

Simmons has also made it a goal to return our defence to a maximum of around 16 points conceded. We had a terrible defence (for us I mean) by the time last season came around. It was the fourth worst in the league but coming from our starting point it was a massive difference.

In addition, Simmons has trimmed us down considerably. Some of our players have stated in the press this season that Potter liked bulk and some players were uncomfortable with that. Not being the fastest team in the league, the extra weight some of our players were carrying really caused problems last season. In our first friendly, against Widnes, one of the things all fans noticed straight away was how much fitter we appeared and how much more toned. This has led to us no longer giving away points in the second half due to being knackered (and all but James Roby - who is a freak of nature - used to [ilook[/i knackered too).

If you filter those changes down to the u21s, which is what normally happens as I understand it, then there will be changes to our team since Potter's day.

TBH i find this is trotted out when the U20's team isn't doing so well. If you look at the two teams in the league with the most youngsters in their respective squads both have been the stand out junior sides the last few years.

This is worrying, as we need to be break even on points difference to get into the playoffs, and while we are scoring points and can only improve on that when the half backs have had time to gel, equally defence has to improve - and that means right from the start ie academy and U20s

What was your defence like last season? If it was poor then Potter will improve it in time. As I said, we were fourth worst in the league. We got to the Grand Final, so it can't have been that bad! (Even though we lost again, obviously) So I wouldn't worry over much. It's all relative. We'd had the best defence for most of Anderson's tenure so to slip to fourth best in two seasons was disconcerting and we were all relieved when Simmons made an improvement in defence a target.

I can also remember a few sides with good junior teams that never translated into a good 1st team, recently Wakefield and Hull KR spring to mind (KR prefer to sign overseas players by the looks of it). I also remember Leeds regularly winning the old alliance league but never winning a trophy at first team level.

But it is true, is it not? Surely I find, in my experience, that the development of the players is far more important than winning the Valvoline Cup? I understand that winning it breeds success, but Warrington's academy finished below ours last year, and as long as the players are moving along at a steady rate, and the players are drip feeding into the first team doing well (as they are) then for me, I find things are progressing well.

Yes, but if they are not beating other youngsters that are coming up in other teams, then thats does show a positive side...

Indeed, but like I say, if they're coming through to the first team at a steady rate, where they can learn and progress from the likes of Langley, Lynch, Diskin etc, then they'll learn much more through that route.

There's got to be a happy medium where there is a modicum of success but with a steady progression of players from the U20 into the first team squad. Success in the VC shouldn't be a be all and end all but likewise underperformance should be looked at.

I'd be interested to understand how established the U20's are? My impression (but there are others better qualified to comment) is that the U20's have been playing together for a while at this level (maybe the wingers are new to this level?) and the pack could [ualmost[/u do a job at Super League level as only Tom Burgess doesn't have experience

I underlined almost for a reason

This raises an interesting point about youth development within Bradford, and something I thought after watching Boots n All's shameless piece on how Warrington, Castleford and Saints are shaping the future of English RL. So:

[url=http://wp.me/plxHx-3qAre we the forgotten club?[/url

I think you misrepresent that programme. Only Saints and Castleford were discussed in detail but to be fair to the Sky guys, they did say 'among others'. They really couldn't have ignored Saints when discussing young players, for two reasons: firstly, since 2007 we have topped the table when it comes to playing 'home grown' in our team, most of which have been young players (but obviously some seniors, like Wello and James Graham). Secondly, due to our horrendous injury situation last season, a whole raft of our young players were permanent fixtures (between injuries) in the first team. Castleford are in a similar situation this season. They have replaced Shenton with a young home grown, and their young hooker - Walker? - is only 19 and looks very good. Castleford have a long history of producing locally grown players though, and they always perform well in the high school comp so have quite a tradition. However, in discussing us and Castleford in depth the Sky guys did not give the impression that everyone else didn't produce young players or that their young players were unworthy of recognition. Sky would have had to have produced a two hour programme to discuss everyone's young players in as much depth, and those days are long gone unfortunately!

Cas's hookers are Milner and Clark. Clark's only 17 and looks as good as any hooker I've seen at that age.

I think I can recall Warrington being mentioned simply off the back of Rhys Evans. But yes, you are right about Cas, and definitely about Saints. Their production line is the envy of Super League, and probably one of the few SL clubs that we're behind in terms of producing genuine quality.



Without blowing my Bradford trumpet too much (is that possible?

), we were in a horrific situation re: an injury crisis last season and forced to fasttrack several of our youngsters into the first team.