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| Quote ="G1"Which is, of course, exactly the same scenario with much of Leeds Carnegie's involvment with Leeds Rugby. You do know what the Carnegie stand is used as during weekdays don't you?'"
Was not taking issue with the stand - or any investment in bricks and mortar that is used for wider sporting and educational purposes. That fits in with the remit of a university or college to promote sports education and related fields, especially one like Leeds Met with the former Carnegie PE college history and specialisation in sports (I used to attempt to play volleyball, very very badly, with the then-Carnegie team years ago). My issue is over team sponsorship (and, to be honest, sponsorship of competitions etc). I do not believe that to be an appropriate use of public money. I was particularly concerned with the attributed comment referring to an alleged £8m settlement with Leeds Rugby union:
Quote ="Times Online"The next biggest item is Leeds Met’s sponsorship of Leeds Carnegie rugby union club. The university was unexpectedly faced with paying hefty new bills because of a rise in rugby’s salary cap. Since Lee’s resignation last year the university has negotiated a deal to pay £8m as an exit from the club.'"
Nothing to do directly with the Rhinos? Its the union club seemed to be the beneficiary? And, prima facie, a serious serious misuse of public money, would you not agree? |
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| Quote ="Adeybull"
Nothing to do directly with the Rhinos? Its the union club seemed to be the beneficiary? And, prima facie, a serious serious misuse of public money, would you not agree?'"
I suspect that the Rhinos may "benefit" in so far as its' all part of the Leeds Rugby Umbrella. |
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| By the way, I can understand what Leeds Carnegie were trying to achieve in trying to base the National Centre for Sporting Excellence in our region.
Of course, being dour Northerners I wouldn't expect Rugby League fans to get behind such forward thinking but rather moan about the pennies and pounds.
Yet, of course, we will all happily and readily bemoan the London Bias when it comes to National Stadium/media coverage etc etc.
His reasoning for sponsorship also makes sense.
Quote His plan was to switch all advertising spending into sponsorship '"
I also note from the original article that the new Cricket Pavillion will have University facilities just like the Rugby Cernegie Stand. |
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i thnk that article is the worst case of lazy reporting I have ever seen. I also notice not many have moaned about their sponsership of the challenge cup and world club challenge
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| Quote ="Exeter Rhino"I agree universities have done well out of Labour, but the golden age is well and truly coming to an end. Our VC (once very friendly with New Labour) has turned against Mandelson and is now apparently getting closer to the Tories.
I agree on the free education issue - but if the government aren't going to pay then someone has to. Higher fees shouldn't necessarily mean reduced social mobility. It is likely that there will be no profits made from introducing fees due to the pressure to provide bursaries for students from 'widening participation' backgrounds anyway (I suspect there aren't many of them in Ilkley
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Another problem with lifting the tuition fees cap is that it would be 3 years after 2012 before graduates would start paying back if they were >£15k. My favoured idea would be similar to what the NUS are proposing; graduates pay back a fixed rate of tax (NUS are suggesting 2.5% IIRC) when they start working. |
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More on the Leeds Carnegie sham here:
www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/leeds-me ... 5270978.jp
and here
www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/Exc ... 5906523.jp
And the fans (yes it seems they do have some. Not many, but some) of what we can still call the Takes discuss the matter here:
www.rugbynetwork.net/boards/read ... 5,11104791
Their funding of Leeds Carnegie is little directly to do with Leeds RLFC in theory as they simply replaced Caddick as a source of funding, and Caddick doesn't really fund Leeds RL in terms of just giving money to it in the same way.
Leeds RL's relationship with the university is obviously beneficial to us, although i don't entirely buy the argument that the Carnegie Stand wouldn't have been built without them it certainly made the sums easier. But as Adeybull says it isn't particularly inappropriate use. Sponsorship of Leeds RLFC generally and the Challenge Cup and referees etc? Not sure how the deal in the latter cases worked, the RFL got to use Carnegie as a training base didn't they so it may not have involved vast amounts of cash.
But owning a loss making RU club that no one can ever envisage not making ridiculous losses and forever being a drain? And tying themselves in for ten years? Madness. On Leeds Met's part. In my view it just cements Gary Hetherington as one of the world's greatest negotiators. A genius  A shame it had to be put to the benefit of this particular bunch of useless pitch destroying meatheads, but still, you've got to admire his almost alchemic ability to created cash out of thin air. |
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More on the Leeds Carnegie sham here:
www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/leeds-me ... 5270978.jp
and here
www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/Exc ... 5906523.jp
And the fans (yes it seems they do have some. Not many, but some) of what we can still call the Takes discuss the matter here:
www.rugbynetwork.net/boards/read ... 5,11104791
Their funding of Leeds Carnegie is little directly to do with Leeds RLFC in theory as they simply replaced Caddick as a source of funding, and Caddick doesn't really fund Leeds RL in terms of just giving money to it in the same way.
Leeds RL's relationship with the university is obviously beneficial to us, although i don't entirely buy the argument that the Carnegie Stand wouldn't have been built without them it certainly made the sums easier. But as Adeybull says it isn't particularly inappropriate use. Sponsorship of Leeds RLFC generally and the Challenge Cup and referees etc? Not sure how the deal in the latter cases worked, the RFL got to use Carnegie as a training base didn't they so it may not have involved vast amounts of cash.
But owning a loss making RU club that no one can ever envisage not making ridiculous losses and forever being a drain? And tying themselves in for ten years? Madness. On Leeds Met's part. In my view it just cements Gary Hetherington as one of the world's greatest negotiators. A genius A shame it had to be put to the benefit of this particular bunch of useless pitch destroying meatheads, but still, you've got to admire his almost alchemic ability to created cash out of thin air. | |
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| Quote ="G1"I also note from the original article that the new Cricket Pavillion will have University facilities just like the Rugby Cernegie Stand.'"
It's for the school of Tourism & Leisure or some such trendy course IIRC. |
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| Quote ="G1"I suspect that the Rhinos may "benefit" in so far as its' all part of the Leeds Rugby Umbrella.'"
G1, that can't possibly be true since we all know as FACT that the RU side of the organisation is substantially resourced by the RL side.
The RU upper class clique continuing to exploit the salt of the earth RL workers as they have for the past 115 years.
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| Quote ="G1"By the way, I can understand what Leeds Carnegie were trying to achieve in trying to base the National Centre for Sporting Excellence in our region.'"
Calm down it's Leeds Poly not Loughborough.
National Centre for Sporting Ecellence  |
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This sounds a bit silly! BUT rather than spending all that money trying to get students to leeds metro uni' by sponsoring things .. why couldnt they plow more money into providing better facilities and coaches? And then build up the reputation that way?
Don't disagree with local uni's/colleges sponsoring clubs but it has to be for the benefit of the students or local community ..
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| Quote ="clintmansell"This sounds a bit silly! BUT rather than spending all that money trying to get students to leeds metro uni' by sponsoring things .. why couldnt they plow more money into providing better facilities and coaches? ..'"
You mean like the facilities at the Carengie Stand and the new Pavillion or the access to resources and coaching they get via their sponsorship of Leeds Rugby? |
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| Quote ="Maccbull_BigBullyBooaza"Calm down it's Leeds Poly not Loughborough.
National Centre for Sporting Ecellence
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You're from Bradford. I wouldn't expect you to grasp the concept of aspirational thinking. |
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| Quote ="G1"You're from Bradford. I wouldn't expect you to grasp the concept of aspirational thinking.'"
You're not acting for the former VC by any chance? |
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| Quote ="G1"You're from Bradford. I wouldn't expect you to grasp the concept of aspirational thinking.'"
Yeah cos Bradford Uni's rubbish innit.
Uni being the operative word and not Polytechnic. |
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| Quote ="tigertot"You're not acting for the former VC by any chance?'"
No, but I couldn't tell you if I was.
I just like a visionary, s'all. |
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| Quote ="Maccbull_BigBullyBooaza"Yeah cos Bradford Uni's rubbish innit.'"
Unfortunately it appears to be in decline as a top research university. It is a bad sign that their VC sees them more as a regional university (as opposed to a centre for international excellence).
But even Leeds university (proper) is having serious problems at the moment as they try and cut staff across the board. |
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I'm re-assured by the Tories plan for Universities to rely on charitable donations for funding. No really.
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| Quote ="tigertot"I'm re-assured by the Tories plan for Universities to rely on charitable donations for funding. No really.'"
Link? |
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| Quote ="Exeter Rhino"Unfortunately it appears to be in decline as a top research university. It is a bad sign that their VC sees them more as a regional university (as opposed to a centre for international excellence).
But even Leeds university (proper) is having serious problems at the moment as they try and cut staff across the board.'"
I don't have a clue mate just winding up the rhinos fan. |
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| Quote ="tigertot"I'm re-assured by the Tories plan for Universities to rely on charitable donations for funding. No really.'"
Most universities are trying extra hard to wring extra money out of alumni anyway, so I can't see this idea replacing the need for central funding any time soon. It may work for Oxbridge and the Ivy League schools in the States but most graduates here either don't earn enough or more likely don't see the point in handing over money to their former universities. |
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| Quote ="Exeter Rhino"Most universities are trying extra hard to wring extra money out of alumni anyway, so I can't see this idea replacing the need for central funding any time soon. It may work for Oxbridge and the Ivy League schools in the States but most graduates here either don't earn enough or more likely don't see the point in handing over money to their former universities.'"
Exactly. It smacks of someone/s with no comprehension of how Universities other than Oxbridge operate or survive. Even Leeds, a top world 100 university, has a massive operation dedicated to just that already. |
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| Quote ="tigertot"www.guardian.co.uk/education/2010/jan/11/universities-gordon-brown-cuts-recession
Penultimate para.'"
Thanks. I remember reading that article online now, and being struck by how uncharacteristically-hard on Labour it was.
Leaving aside the political leanings of the Grauniad, and that much of their readership is engaged in the education sector (doubtless the Torygraph, Wail or Excess would have a different take on it), the wording is:
"The Tory spokesman on higher education, David Willetts, said he could not promise to reverse the cuts if his party was in power. A Conservative government would encourage universities to reduce overheads by relying more on charitable donations, he said.".
Interesting... I read those comments as saying that the Tories would almost certainly (what "could not promise to reverse..." really means) leave the cuts by Labour intact - i.e no difference in substance between the two parties' approaches (again...). But with hints maybe of a more benign (tax) regime to encourage donations and legacies from wealthy benefactors, maybe like in the US, to help plug the funding gap that both parties would seem to be signed up to?
Or I may be crediting a politician with too much joined-up thinking...?
A concern over encouraging donations and legacies from wealthy benefactors would surely have to be that - as in the US with the Ivy league - it would likely be the "top" universities though that would benefit disproportionately? |
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| Quote ="Maccbull_BigBullyBooaza"I don't have a clue mate just winding up the rhinos fan.'" Well you're failing badly shag. |
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| Quote ="G1"Well you're failing badly shag.'"
Good for you. |
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).'"
A shame it had to be put to the benefit of this particular bunch of useless pitch destroying meatheads, but still, you've got to admire his almost alchemic ability to created cash out of thin air.
