OK - let's face facts.

1. At the looks of it we've no rich backer on the horizon

2. Macca appears to be staying, Lowes may be coming in as No 2.

3. We've signed a few players, Hall, L'Estrange, Kearney (likely)

4. We know a few are off to pastures new - Morrison, Newton and a few more likely to be on the way - Tadulala, Solomona, Jeffries and a few others.

5. Some of the kids are starting to get games.

So what can we hope happens next year?

Jimmy coming in would bring a lift to the place if it is true, while there have been plenty of debates about the conditioning of the players, it's probably a good idea to freshen up this area too, even if you are for Clawson.

Hopefully we will have a season that is not as bad for injuries to key players like we have had with Morrison and Solomona.

No underlying stuff in the background about a player who we are trying to get rid of (Tupou).

The youngsters who have had games will be better for it and we will be able to blood a few more next year if Whitehead and Donaldson can continue to be in or around the 17. Players like Crossley, Crookes and Olbison may be the next players to make a step up?

We are not going to win the league or cup next year - but I would hope that we would comfortably make the 8, and with a bit of luck have a good cup run.

Personally I would accept the above as we currently stand at this point and if we do appear to make progress in this way, I would consider giving Macca another year or two - but the above must happen.

I don't think we can get much lower than we already are - we know we won't make the play-offs and 12th is as low as we are likely to drop.

Roll on next season - staying at Odsal (as we all know the new stadium project won't move), get the kids back in the ground by inviting schools along to games - get them playing bull tag on the pitch at half time and parading around the pitch before kick-off.

Let's get some positivity back in the place and make it look as though we are trying to lift out of the doom and gloom we are currently experiencing!

Can't see us doing any better next year unless the weaknesses in the team and coaching set up are addressed. So far they haven't.

Here here!

I've given up trying to guess what is going to happen where the Bulls are concerned. I was really optimistic at the start of this season but it hasn't panned out for lots of reasons already discussed to death.

The new faces will bring lots of change, I hope it's good change because it can't get much poorer. The concern for me is the affect on the crowds. If we don't keep the bulk of the crowds that have been coming in recent years then the recruitment is going to be even less exciting.

My hopes for next year is that some more youth comes through to compete for shirts. From what I've seen on the boards this season, one of few plus points is the young lads getting games and impressing.

I also hope that we make the playoffs but this season has shown that a good team on paper doesn't always come good. I hope McNamara can turn this round otherwise the fans memories of him could be bitter for a long time.

This year large parts of the squad have underperformed consistently which is likely a combination of fitness, which we've struggled with for a couple of years, confidence, which must be shot long ago and coaching. We look like we've moved to address fitness and coaching and a new season always brings renewed optimism (no matter how misplaced).

If the squad had performed anywhere near it's potential I'd have expected us to be around 5-6th this season which should be achievable next season and must be set as a minimum for us to even consider MacNamara continuing. We must get off to a good start to avoid the downward spiral of this season where we clearly got into a pattern of losing games in spectacular collapses.

I'd want to see the youth development continue at roughly the same pace although I expect Crookes will be involved more so maybe we won't see as many new first teamers.

The one thing i would want to see above all else is under performers dropped regardless of their status at the club.

The only way i could see the bulls acheiving anything next year is if they have a total clear out of players. keeping a core and making subtle changes for you lot won't help. IMO

How many teams have shown a dramatic improvement in performance the following year, after a wholesale clearout on the same budget? Given it takes a team a fair while to gel and the most successful teams tend to be those who make only modest personnel changes each year?

And of course having paid God knows what to terminate a load of contracts, which will blow your salary cap out of the water anyway?

Not a practicable option, unfortunately. Looks like we are probably anyway going to head as close to that as IS practicable (Deacon excepted, obviously...)

Trying to be optimistic, we made quite a significant improvement in 1999 compared to 1998. We made some good signings, Henry Paul, TV, Naylor & Withers (and some fairly poor ones if IIRC), but we also saw young players such as Fielden, Deacon, Pryce & Peacock emerge.

If we do make a couple of good signings and the young players that have been blooded this year blossom we might see a significant improvement. But its a big if.

LOL

That's only because they ALREADY have a good team in place.

You are sh*t.

Back before leeds came good, they didn't make the grade so they had a clear out, powell went, the experienced players were let go and youth came in.

Substle changes aren't good when your team is terrible.

Leeds did bring in some experienced old heads like Glanville and Furner who were a big influence on the kids.

By and large though they brought in the kids en masse. This meant they got tonked a few times in 2000 and 2001/2 but it paid off in the end. That seems to be the plan for us too, however our first team has deteriorated a bit more.

Powell deserves credit for brining those kids through by 2003 Leeds were only a whisker behind the Bulls.

I imagine you'll do better next year because you'll be scrapping for every point from the start. I get the feeling that the coaching staff didn't take a lot of clubs as seriously as they should have in the early part of the season, and only really raised games against Leeds and Saints.

It felt like a lot more than a whisker when you beat us 5 times in that season





Some credit should go to El Presidente for getting the youth policy going and predicting that Leeds would be World Champs. He was right, although his prediction came a few years too late IIRC.

Without us recruiting any real quality we'll just be the same as this year. From game one we've struggled creatively and in defence we've had problems out wide. We've lacked impact off the bench too.

Go and be a prat on your own time, eh?

Regarding your first point - I never suggested otherwise - indeed, it was implicit in what I said.

Regarding youth coming in - that is precisely what the Bulls are doing but it takes time from a standing start. We are in the same position that you lot were a few years ago, when Hetherington came in and started developing the academy. It took you a few years before your golden crop came through; same here.

I was responding to the argument that "...only way i could see the bulls acheiving anything next year is if they have a total clear out of players". I was pointing out the reasons both why that was impracticable as it stands, and that it generally takes a side with serious personnel changes a while to gel.

Sibbs Rhino's made a sensible and constructive contribution to the discussion - one with which many of our own fans would wholeheartedly agree if it was do-able. Why could you not do likewise, instead of trying to look clever?

Sound reasoning (as usual) and I would go along with all that. But with the observation that in those days we did not seem to have the sort of constraints on what we could spend on players that we now have - for whatever reason. There was a time when we somehow seemed able to afford a team full of internationals...inside the cap.

Snake Eater's always a wind up artist when it concerns the Bulls.

:3664g4zz

Disagree.

[gritted teeth modeA :3664g4zzLOT

I know. That's why I had no reservations about telling him what I thought!

There's a lot of good sense on this thread in amongst the inevitable trolling.

A key factor for me would be a realistic view of the 2010 season coming from the club, together with a whole fresh approach to PR. We need much better channels of communication from the club, including an end to the spin that gets trotted out when (as is inevitable) the team loses a match.

Of course, we don't know what goes on behind the scenes, but I would like to think that there will be some sort of post-season analysis from McNamara that let's the squad know in no uncertain terms how much they have let themselves, the club and the supporters down in 009. Nobody surely expected us to top the table and cut a swathe through the playoffs, but somewhere between 4th and 7th was being widely predicted and we should have at least been competitive through the season.

I'd like some honesty and genuine soul searching. Those players being let go should be told, and the news released by the club - then we can start to move on. The remaining players should be given proper off-season diet and training regimes so that they come back ready and pepped up for a good pre-season. By then, hopefully, we'll have a good backroom and fitness staff in place ready to make them suffer in pre-season, lol.

Realism for 2010 would be to continue to bring through Whitehead, Crookes and Donaldson, whilst also giving significant game time (not the last 4 minutes) to Olbison, Hyde, Crossley and maybe others, whilst remaining competitive and giving solid, pride-filled performances throughout. I would be happy with finishing in the Top 8, frankly. This is a time of rebuilding - we're not going to challenging at the top, let's be honest

Another key aspect for 2010 would be significant and demonstrable progress on the stadium. But that's not something that the club can easily deliver. However, what they CAN deliver is honest, realistic up-to-date information - not spin and marketing bluster...

Mostly points I agree with in principle.
It is difficult for a club (or any organisation for that matter) to put everything that goes on behind the scenes in the public domain. Nor would it be wise to IMO.

A huge part of going forward for me, is the OSV, this seems to be hanging over us and pulling the club down, with, I suspect, a great deal time and effort being used here instead of other areas of the business.

A post season review would be good, as would a preview to 2010.

I've a feeling some of the player issues will leave the club with those players exiting.

With regard to the young player’s only initially getting 4mins game time - don't get to hung up on that. It's about slowly introducing the players to the first team arena. See Donaldson & Whitehead.

On the subject of PR and Media; It shouldn't be forgotten that this is an area that has been massively cut in terms of budget and head count. People need to bear this in mind when having a gripe.

Better still, if you've an idea on how to improve it, then get it on the sticky!!

One thing I would like to say, especially concerning the news on the T&A today, is that somethings been addressed which I've believed has been the problem for a significant period of time.

Basil Richards and Lee St.Hilaire are far too inexperienced to coach at this level, in my opinion. I can't imagine Steve Mac being too confident turning to them in his hour of need for inspiration. Similarly, I can't forsee the likes of Burgess, Morrison and Lynch taking on board what they have to see, I could see a total lack of respect.

Steve Mac isn't a bad coach (I'm not opening that can of worms here however!), I just think he needed a more experienced no.2 to turn to. Jimmy Lowes certainly is more experienced than those 2 that appear to be leaving, and I only see that as a positive move for the club.

Here here.

Not sure I buy that argument. Francis Cummins has been an assistant at Leeds for sometime and what experience does he have? Also, Wigan have a backroom full of experience but this hasn't amounted to anything for them.

Castleford this season are a perfect example of this.

St Hilaire was an assistant for 3 years at Huddersfield before coming here.