Taken directly from the council executive meeting of December 18th - Do I sense a ground share looming? Sounds like the council fancy it!! Also noted that we will get a decision in March, definitely, maybe!!

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Progress of the Odsal Sports Village (OSV) Project

The Odsal Sports Village project has much to commend it. It will enable Bradford’s World Champion side – the Bulls – to remain at their historic home; it will replace outdated public sports facilities in South-West Bradford with modern provision, and add brand new facilities with regional and national significance for a range of different sports.

The scheme demonstrates the community focus that has long distinguished the Bulls as a professional club. A great deal of preparatory work has been devoted to the scheme to date by the Bulls, Bradford Council, Bradford College and other partners, and there is a momentum behind the OSV project leading into the next report of the review group to the Council Executive, planned for March 2008.

It is understood that considerable progress has been made already in closing the ‘funding gap’ of £12.8m identified by Council Officers prior to the November meeting of the Council Executive, with funding becoming available from a variety of public sources at local, regional, national and European levels. After years of consideration of a variety of different schemes, it seems important that one scheme should go ahead in the near future.

Three Reservations about OSV

At the same time, three reservations may be noted about the OSV project in its current form:

1. Whilst the investment planned for the Odsal Stadium itself is necessary to its continued use by the Bradford Bulls, the level of accommodation envisaged does not meet all of the criteria that might be desirable for spectators in the 21st. Century, in relation to covered stands, for example;

2. The OSV plan seems to have emerged as a solution to a variety of specific practical problems arising from the age and condition of i) the Odsal Stadium (which is a major concern to Bradford Bulls) and ii) some of the existing public facilities in South-West Bradford, including the Richard Dunn Sports Centre (which is a major concern for the Council).
Despite the efforts made within the project to look beyond the immediate requirements of the Bradford Bulls as a club, and rugby league as a sport, it remains a ‘sectional’ project, both in terms of the areas of the Bradford District covered, and the sports involved. OSV might therefore be represented as a ‘tactical’ rather than a ‘strategic’ response to the development of publicly-funded sports facilities within the District;

3. The development of the plans for the future of the Bulls at Odsal appears to have taken place so far without any systematic reference to the existence of the other full-time professional sports club within the District – Bradford City FC. The two clubs are not dissimilar in their overall sizes, or in the level of support they enjoy within the community. The success of either club brings prestige and other benefits to the District. They have worked more or less closely together at different times in the past. And the question of whether they could collaborate more closely now is an open one that has hung over the discussion of the OSV, but has never been addressed directly.

A Case for Broader Consideration

If there is to be large-scale public investment that will benefit full-time professional sport in the District, there is a case for considering whether the investment could be used to provide facilities that are shared between the two full-time professional clubs. This would potentially double the impact of any given investment, with substantial possible advantages for the future revenue streams of both clubs. There is also the question of whether the investment could or should be considered in a frame of reference that is ‘non-sectional’ and ‘strategic’ in relation to the sports’ needs of the whole District, and recognises two football codes rather than one.

The problem is that if the OSV scheme is approved in its present form – which is not geared to participation by Bradford City FC – the issues of i) collaboration between the two clubs, and ii) the use of the public investment in the whole context of sport for the District, will be decided by default. Given the scale of irreversible public funding envisaged at Odsal (which runs into millions, or even tens of millions, of grant-aided support) the two clubs would be obliged to continue along separate paths for the foreseeable future, if OSV is approved at the conclusion of the current review process. The effects of such a decision would continue to be felt for as far ahead as a generation or more, and the decision might be taken in effect as early as March 2008. The window of opportunity for considering alternatives may therefore close within a very short space of time, perhaps as little as three months.

A Request to the Council Executive

In the light of the foregoing, the Council Executive is asked whether it might authorise Council Officers to investigate the whole range of options for the public support of full-time professional sport in the District, including all the options involving collaboration between Bradford Bulls and Bradford City. These consultations would take place as a matter of urgency with all the relevant parties, alongside the Council’s ongoing consideration of the OSV project.

This consultation would have one of two possible outcomes:

1. It might turn out that the OSV project represents the best use of the funding available, having taken account of a full range of alternatives. This would serve to strengthen any eventual decision taken in favour of the project, by providing further reassurance that public funds were being used in an appropriate and justifiable manner;

2. It might turn out that there is some alternative to the OSV project that meets the objectives of both clubs, provides better value for public money and/or meets a greater range of the Council’s strategic objectives for the development of sport within the District. If this outcome occurred, the consultation would have averted the dangers of proceeding with the OSV project in the face of a preferable alternative.

So that's a no then is it?

So, to save Bradford's two professional clubs, we kill one and let the other die. Dead simple.

Thanks Idlebull, great info.
We can read into the gobblygook whatever we want and everyone will have their own opinion. Mine is that the council are saying that they will not put their money into two locations

See you at Valley Parade.

If directors at vp say no will it be a dead duck now?
Will council say hey we tried to give it you but city wouldnt move to make it viable?
Will they dangle a financial carrot in front of directors to persuade them to move?
If council offered a couple of million to city to make this happen, getting the strain of dunns off from around their neck surely the shareholders would have to have a say.
City have staged a u21 game once(think v italy) surely by moving to a brand new sporting village would see them in the papers more, show their ambition and entice more corporate clients.
The fa could probably stage a few games there as well.
The wc challenge could get staged there rather than just leeds or huddersfield.
The fa would probably fund the gap to build it.
Richard dunns slides are shut for repair at mo, its taking a week and costing 90k to do the repairs, but how much are they losing as well, it will prob top 100k jsut for one week thru loss of sales and expenditure, 100k that could be given to the community or schools so everyone gets the benefits.

Odsal has a vast area to develope, with the building work going on at mo to bring jobs to the area, bringing more corporate clients with it.
Marksies are building a massive store, hoping to create thousands of jobs, could they get involved with it.

There you have your preferred solution.

It's the only option the club have that will see the council willing to write off the money the Bulls would owe to quit Odsal off their own back.

City moving into the OSV project is not going to happen, the proposed plans would not provide facilities anything like there is at VP now, and it would cost way way too much to develop similar facilities at Odsal.

Moan and bitch all you like but if you actually want an RL club to support in Bradford a move to Valley Parade is the only option.

My two cents on this as a fan of both clubs. For city to consider moving to Odsal the plans for the sports village would have to be radically altered. Due to the taylor report and city's desire to move back up the divisions the shared stadium would have to be an all seater, likewise it would have to be fully covered. We already have a 25,000 all seater in Valley Parade, so for moving to Odsal to be a step up basically Odsal would have to be redeveloped into a brand new 25,000 all seater fully covered stadium. Which needless to say, would pretty much involve all of Odsal being bulldozed and starting over.

Given that its going to cost tens of millions to put a roof over the popular side and add some extra seating there, i can't see the council wanting to come up with the funds to transform it into a 25,000 capacity state of the art stadium. What they seem to be hinting at IMO, is wanting to move the Bulls to Valley Parade and redevelop VP. Which i hear was the plan a few years ago.

My main concern is that Bulls crowds fell when moved to VP. Other than that i'd be happy for the Bulls to be at VP. Providing Odsal got redeveloped into a brand new community stadium i'd be happy for City to move to Odsal. Given that Odsal appears to be a financial black hole an even better option would surely be to build a brand new stadium somewhere else for both clubs? But we know the council can't organise a p*ss up in a brewery so theres more chance of me flying to mars in a robin reliant.

OK here goes again in this relentlessly circular conversation (now in its 108th year).

Given A - that Odsal is a dump beyond any hope of saving (the sports village should have the byline "polishing a turd"icon_wink.gif and B Bulls fans hate VP then why not C. Give both up and move to a brand new stadium on the periphery of the city somewhere?

It feels like Bulls fans need to get some sort of reality check and put aside the perfectly understandable but fruitless sentimentality about a stadium we cannot stay in. Once we reconcile ourselves with that fact we can try and formulate some genuinely visionary and sensible plans.

OR. Someone tell me how having a roof on the popular side interfaces with the need to replace all the concrete in such a huge arena.

I am a bulls fan of many, many years, and have many great (and not so great) memories of odsal that I will always cherish. As much as I would hate to leave odsal the biggest priority must be the survival of the club.

When the Bulls played at VP a few years back I still attended every match, but was very glad to return top odsal. I was no fan of the facilities at VP, but I truly suspect that I would dislike any all-seater stadium just as much, being someone who prefers to stand in the crowd.

For me, VP is very badly situated; It is far from easy to reach from the motorway without hitting the town centre, parking is attrocious, and there is little potential from further development (if my memory serves me correctly in regards to the councils refusal to grant future planning applications a few years back.

For me, neither VP or Odsal is a viable unified stadium for the city and so a totally new development is, in my humble opinion, probably the only option.

Somewhat agreed, although the council reportedly granted us permission to build a second tier to the Midland Road stand whilst we were in the premiership which would have taken the capacity to 30,000. However even if this is possible, i believe the future of both clubs is further out of the city in a new community stadium. But i just cant see it happening with the record the council has.

Oh and on the subject of all seater stadiums, if fans continue to keep up the pressure on the government to review safe standing at football grounds and they adopt a similar scheme to the German leagues where small safe standing sections are allowed, then hopefully any future stadium may not need to be completely all seated

So people seriously think someone should rustle up £30m + to build a new stadium for two clubs, when there's a perfectly acceptable stadium there already which needs no further developing, OK, good thinking.

Some Bulls "supporters" have to get over themselves, adapt or die - if your support of the club is dependant on not having to drive for 10 more minutes, or catch a bus then you don't deserve a club anyway.


Yep, so bad 13,000 people make it there to watch fourth division football every couple of weeks, it's practically in the middle of nowhere.

maybe you need to get over your barely hidden agenda to get bulls shifted to valley parade because its handy for yourself?

I live closer to Odsal

but you've always gone out of your way to promote valley parade over odsal at every opportunity. fact is majority of bulls fan dont like vp. A shared stadium outside city might be a goer as both sets of fans would be giving something up but we'd always just be unwanted guests at vp and to a lesser extent the reverse would be true at odsal.
If we hadnt been treated like s**t by stewards at vp last time we ground shared then it might have been an option. If we moved their now we'd undo all good work we've done last couple of years building crowds up again following our last visit to vp

I understand your concerns but our stewards have improved now. Its not just the bulls fans they were treating badly, they were treating city fans badly, they were bad heavy handed stewards under bad management. However i would certainly prefer a new community stadium outside the city .

I'd prefer to watch RL at Odsal but it isn't realistic in the long run, without millions of pounds appearing from nowhere.



Why give up a modern stadium, to simply build another? As I said above where do you think the £30m + needed to build a new stadium somewhere is going to come from. As a Bradfordian I'd be furious if the council wasted my money on such a project and I support both teams, I can only imagine the reaction of most of the council tax-payers in the district, it isn't going to happen.


If 2,000 supporters won't go to VP then I question whether they can call themselves supporters, the facts are if the club stay at Odsal in it's current form there won't be a club for much longer, if some people prefer that than having to sit down to watch their rugby then so be it.

bradford city dont have a stadium to give up. They dont own it anymore they are in same situation as us. They lease it. A new community stadium could have provision for standing areas which is biggest problem bulls fans have with vp apart from location. Also a new stadium is something both clubs would have an equal stake in which would go a long way to eliminating the them and us attitude that currently prevales.

As for funding it, if council put in funds raised by selling off odsal plus richard dunn plus extra grants available through football side of things then i'd imagine we would be pretty much there. Council will have to put some money in but they've got to do something about richard dunn anyway and if they are prepared to spend 24million on a park outside city hall that no one in the city wants then they should be prepared to fund this as well.

It will be a sad day if it came to the point where we had to move in to VP. I am not overly sentimental and could cope with leaving Odsal but a move to VP could well have a similar result to staying at Odsal without it being redeveloped. I think.. in fact I am sure the support would drop quite significantly.. can we afford that either?

I pray there will be solution to our ground problem.. but after so many years of trying.. it is hard to see it coming off. Hell.. I think I'd rather watch the Bulls at the Galpharm before going to VP!!

City can't agree to move into a stadium with standing areas, if they did they'd be saying they'd be happy to stay in the bottom two divisions forever, that isn't going to happen.

It would be a lot cheaper and easier for the council to buy Valley Parade than to have to find the sort of funding required to build a new stadium, despite what Dan155 and a few kids on the City official board might think there is no chance whatsoever that the core support at Valley Parade will give that stadium up for some soulless plastic development on some out of town site after what happened in 1985, it's something that you can't really hope to explain to someone who doesn't have to live with it, the attachment of people to Odsal is nothing compared to the attachment long standing City fans have to VP. Like it or not there is a modern stadium there and available for use, it is the only realistic option to keep top flight RL in the city.

Wigan fans didn't like the JJB at first, but they've come flocking back in recent seasons, like I say if people won't support a club because they have to sit down then they are not worth having as supporters anyway.

I am sure the hull fans were in a similar position to us , what we need is a new ground developed with facilities for both clubs , the council have some of the receipts from the sale of the airport to invest, along with revenues from the sale of Richard Dunn and odsal along with grants from the FA and any potential olympic lottery funding which could provide a multi purpose facility.

However time scales are vital to securing a franchise for us so a decision needs to reached soon , this has proven illusive so far and I am not confident that we will be able to get a solid case soon for a number of reasons.

City may have use of a ground ATM but for how long. As Bradford redevelops itself the land on which VP is built becomes a valuable asset for its owners , much more than a football club in the lower levels of the football league can generate in rent.

So a merger at VP would still only be a short to medium term solution to the problems facing both sporting clubs.

Well thats my 2 pennys cast into the discussion.

I can foresee thisas a scenario. Bulls move to VP prior to NEW shared stadium being built. Odsal sold off to provide much needed capital. MOney then diverted to city park and Broadway development. Bulls stay at VP.

I bumped into a certain Mr Sutcliffe last night in Jacobs Well - asked a polite question - as minister for sport and a local mp why won't you back odsals redevelopment? His answer was basically no comment!! What a complete and utter @@@@@r he is!

The only language he will respond to is the ballot box if he thought his majority was threatened by people in favour of the redevelopment then he would listen . Not many turkeys vote for xmas

But I genuinely do think you need to at the very least TRY and explain it because it makes no sense to the rest of us. Why would you actively want to stay where your fellow fans burned to death? I can't fathom where the logic is in that.

What I will never ever ever do is to make light of the collective grief that is still felt by all at City but to stay at VP for that reason seems nothing short of macabre. I've made the analogy before but if your son or daughter died in a housefire, would your first priority be to repaint it and move back in or to move the hell out as fast as you can?