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I suspect that we are in for some bad news.
That was the worst performance I have seen from Bradford ever.
I suppose it's only to be expected if the players have been told they are about to be d1cked.
Be careful what you wish for.
COYB
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Yes it doesn't look good, that team spirit we have built this season seemed to have evaporated tonight. Going to be an interesting few days.
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Well the announcement was that Khan has bought the holding company (Bradford Bulls Holdings Ltd) and not the trading company (Bradford Bulls Ltd). Holding companies by law can not have any employees. Where this leaves the players with regard to TUPE and transfer of contracts and existing terms and conditions is anyone's guess. If they haven't been TUPE'd, due to not being employees of the holding company, then that could explain tonight's performance.
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| Quote ="Derwent"Well the announcement was that Khan has bought the holding company (Bradford Bulls Holdings Ltd) and not the trading company (Bradford Bulls Ltd).'"
Wrong.
He has bought the business undertaking. BB(H) Ltd will be liquidated.
Quote ="Derwent" Holding companies by law can not have any employees. '"
Wrong. Totally wrong.
The staff are anyway employed by BB(H) Ltd.
Quote ="Derwent"Where this leaves the players with regard to TUPE and transfer of contracts and existing terms and conditions is anyone's guess. If they haven't been TUPE'd, due to not being employees of the holding company, then that could explain tonight's performance.'"
No it is not anyone's guess.
To the extent normal employment law applies, they will be TUPEd across to OK Bulls Ltd. |
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| Quote ="Adeybull"Wrong.
He has bought the business undertaking. BB(H) Ltd will be liquidated.
Wrong. Totally wrong.
The staff are anyway employed by BB(H) Ltd.
No it is not anyone's guess.
To the extent normal employment law applies, they will be TUPEd across to OK Bulls Ltd.'"
I thought ALL the staff were made redundant? |
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Well something has happened, that was shocking. Where has the team that played at Huddersfield gone?
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| Quote ="Cassandra"I thought ALL the staff were made redundant?'"
No. They were not. And none of the players were. |
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| Quote ="Adeybull"Wrong.
He has bought the business undertaking. BB(H) Ltd will be liquidated.
Wrong. Totally wrong.
The staff are anyway employed by BB(H) Ltd.
'"
Obviously BBH will be liquidated, but what about the trading company (BBL) ? I had assumed that the Holding company was simply being used as a SPV to facilitate the sale of assets, leaving the liabilities in the trading company ?
You are saying that the employees are employed by the holding company rather than the trading company ? Why ? It kind of defeats the object of having a holding company to do that. |
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| Quote ="Adeybull"No. They were not. And none of the players were.'"
It's on this board on July 2. |
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| Quote ="Cassandra"It's on this board on July 2.'"
Must be true then. |
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Could it be they've been told they're staying and as such they're no longer in the shop window?
Either way it was pathetic, the season ends with a whimper.
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| Quote ="bullsonfire"Could it be they've been told they're staying and as such they're no longer in the shop window?
Either way it was pathetic, the season ends with a whimper.'"
If the Wakefield players are as cocky as their fans right now then it might not all be over. |
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| Quote ="Derwent"Obviously BBH will be liquidated, but what about the trading company (BBL) ? I had assumed that the Holding company was simply being used as a SPV to facilitate the sale of assets, leaving the liabilities in the trading company ?
You are saying that the employees are employed by the holding company rather than the trading company ? Why ? It kind of defeats the object of having a holding company to do that.'"
You really do not seem to have the first idea what you are talking about.
BBH WAS the trading company. BBL operates the lottery - only.
Go check out the accounts. |
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| Quote ="Cassandra"It's on this board on July 2.'"
What is?
None of the players were made redundant.
The coaching staff and various other staff were made redundant. A number of less-expensive other staff were retained. How else could the club continue as a going concern? |
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| Quote ="bullsonfire"Could it be they've been told they're staying and as such they're no longer in the shop window?
Either way it was pathetic, the season ends with a whimper.'"
Could be they read the same reports as we have? That the RFL have seemingly not yet completed due dilligence on OK's bid, so could yet say they are not happy he has the finances in place for a SL operation.
Or could be they read that the RFL have seemingly said that there will be a mini-franchising round, the results of which will be known at some later date - i.e. it could be ages yet before we know if we have a SL licence for next year. When last Tuesday they probably thought Wood and Rimmer were coming up to tell them everything had been sorted?
Guess we'll have to see who is prepared to say what, and when? And then judge whether anything might or might not have had a bearing? |
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| Quote ="Adeybull"You really do not seem to have the first idea what you are talking about.
BBH WAS the trading company. BBL operates the lottery - only.
Go check out the accounts.'"
It's true that I am not familiar with the corporate structure so I will have to accept what you're saying. It just seems a little bizarre to have a holding company as the trading company. In more than 20 years as an accountant I dont recall ever seeing that scenario. As I said, it tends to be at odds with the reasons for having holding companies in the first place. Hence my confusion. In the main, holding companies tend to exist to simply hold investments and not to trade, as I'm sure you're well aware.
Btw, I did say I was assuming so no need to be so sanctimonious from your obviously better informed position. Maybe just explain the actual position instead of being insulting ? |
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Bradford Bulls Holdings ltd is a nomenclature, it does not define the scope of its operations.
A look at its accounts will show that it both holds shares in other companies and trades in its own right.
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| Quote ="Derwent"It's true that I am not familiar with the corporate structure so I will have to accept what you're saying. It just seems a little bizarre to have a holding company as the trading company. In more than 20 years as an accountant I dont recall ever seeing that scenario. As I said, it tends to be at odds with the reasons for having holding companies in the first place. Hence my confusion. In the main, holding companies tend to exist to simply hold investments and not to trade, as I'm sure you're well aware.
Btw, I did say I was assuming so no need to be so sanctimonious from your obviously better informed position. Maybe just explain the actual position instead of being insulting ?'"
You made the statement that a holding company is not allowed to employ staff. Rather surprised that in your 20 years as an accountant you believed that to be the case.
You stated that OK had bought BBH, when the public statements (including from the administrator) state clearly that it was the business that had been bought.
You didn't seem to appreciate that just because a company may have the word "holdings" in its name, it does not necessarily mean it is a pure holding company, even if I agree common sense would suggest it ought to be. I could reel off a list of trading companies with "holdings" in their name.
If I came across as insulting, that was not my intent. But equally, you came out with some statements as if fact which were anything but. Maybe judicious use of "my understanding is" or similar would have helped? |
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| Quote ="Adeybull"
To the extent normal employment law applies, they will be TUPEd across to OK Bulls Ltd.'"
Only if they accept the TUPE |
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| Quote ="Hutchie"Only if they accept the TUPE'"
There is that. I was looking at if from the employer's obligations POV. |
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Quote ="Adeybull"
You stated that OK had bought BBH, when the public statements (including from the administrator) state clearly that it was the business that had been bought.
'"
The only report I have read on the matter is on the BBC website which states "[iBut administrator Brendan Guilfoyle said in a statement that he had sold Bradford Bulls Holdings Limited to OK Bulls Limited for an undisclosed sum[/i". Therefore I was misinformed by that report based on what you have subsequently stated. The BBC report is somewhat misleading and does not accurately reflect what has actually transpired, as I'm sure you'd agree.
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/19446070
I was not aware that Holdings was a trading company, as I had assumed it was simply a Holding company in the conventional sense especially given that there appears to be a group of companies including BBL, Bradford Northern (1964) Ltd and Bradford Bulls Foundation Ltd. You have advised me that my assumption was incorrect, I accept that. |
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Quote ="Adeybull"
You stated that OK had bought BBH, when the public statements (including from the administrator) state clearly that it was the business that had been bought.
'"
The only report I have read on the matter is on the BBC website which states "[iBut administrator Brendan Guilfoyle said in a statement that he had sold Bradford Bulls Holdings Limited to OK Bulls Limited for an undisclosed sum[/i". Therefore I was misinformed by that report based on what you have subsequently stated. The BBC report is somewhat misleading and does not accurately reflect what has actually transpired, as I'm sure you'd agree.
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/19446070
I was not aware that Holdings was a trading company, as I had assumed it was simply a Holding company in the conventional sense especially given that there appears to be a group of companies including BBL, Bradford Northern (1964) Ltd and Bradford Bulls Foundation Ltd. You have advised me that my assumption was incorrect, I accept that. | |
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| Quote ="bigchris"If the Wakefield players are as cocky as their fans right now then it might not all be over.'"
sorry for feeling a little elated especially as it now gives us an outside chance of reaching the play offs but you have hardly gone through the turmoil the Trinity has had to put up with last season
like you say it might not be all over  |
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| Quote ="snowie"but you have hardly gone through the turmoil the Trinity has had to put up with last season
'"
Did you really just say that we have not been through turmoil?
Where have you been for the last six months? |
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Spoke to a couple of the senior players and coaching staff after game. They are extremely positive about the future and us being in SL next season. They agreed that timing of announcement may not have helped, a game too far and all that. When the stress and worry stops the adrenaline stops a bit.
Needless to say they had no excuses though and were thoroughly pi$$ed off with the performance. However they were talking about finals rugby and see wakey slipping on a banana skin.
I also had the utter pleasure of chatting to Omar Khan. He was excited, positive and extremely open to ideas and comments. A very likeable fella.
Awful result but I've come home surprisingly happy.
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Quote ="Derwent"The only report I have read on the matter is on the BBC website which states "[iBut administrator Brendan Guilfoyle said in a statement that he had sold Bradford Bulls Holdings Limited to OK Bulls Limited for an undisclosed sum[/i". Therefore I was misinformed by that report based on what you have subsequently stated. The BBC report is somewhat misleading and does not accurately reflect what has actually transpired, as I'm sure you'd agree.
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/19446070
I was not aware that Holdings was a trading company, as I had assumed it was simply a Holding company in the conventional sense especially given that there appears to be a group of companies including BBL, Bradford Northern (1964) Ltd and Bradford Bulls Foundation Ltd. You have advised me that my assumption was incorrect, I accept that.'"
Fair enough. And yes, the BBC hack got it wrong and his report is indeed misleading.
Sorry mate, we get so many come on here spouting off and lecturing us on "facts" that are anything but - and especially in the field where (unlike the rugby, where I am no expert whatsoever) I have some expertise - that maybe someone with genuine intent but lacking some facts gets tarred with the same brush.
The BB Foundation is not part of the group, btw. It is a company limited by guarantee and a registered charity (and I was once a director and company secretary of it) which operates in the community field.
Just to support this business of names not necessarily bearing any relation to structure, BBH was until 1998 called "Bradford Northern Rugby League Football Club (1964) ltd, and was the operating company since it was formed in 1964. There were some name swaps in 1998. |
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Quote ="Derwent"The only report I have read on the matter is on the BBC website which states "[iBut administrator Brendan Guilfoyle said in a statement that he had sold Bradford Bulls Holdings Limited to OK Bulls Limited for an undisclosed sum[/i". Therefore I was misinformed by that report based on what you have subsequently stated. The BBC report is somewhat misleading and does not accurately reflect what has actually transpired, as I'm sure you'd agree.
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/19446070
I was not aware that Holdings was a trading company, as I had assumed it was simply a Holding company in the conventional sense especially given that there appears to be a group of companies including BBL, Bradford Northern (1964) Ltd and Bradford Bulls Foundation Ltd. You have advised me that my assumption was incorrect, I accept that.'"
Fair enough. And yes, the BBC hack got it wrong and his report is indeed misleading.
Sorry mate, we get so many come on here spouting off and lecturing us on "facts" that are anything but - and especially in the field where (unlike the rugby, where I am no expert whatsoever) I have some expertise - that maybe someone with genuine intent but lacking some facts gets tarred with the same brush.
The BB Foundation is not part of the group, btw. It is a company limited by guarantee and a registered charity (and I was once a director and company secretary of it) which operates in the community field.
Just to support this business of names not necessarily bearing any relation to structure, BBH was until 1998 called "Bradford Northern Rugby League Football Club (1964) ltd, and was the operating company since it was formed in 1964. There were some name swaps in 1998. | |
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