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| I've been reading a lot on here about how the Bulls pack is one of the best in SL, but I've seen little evidence of this this season (or last season for that matter).
On paper what Bradford have certainly looks good (if not great), but as a long suffering Leeds fan of the 1990s I am well aware that games aren't won on paper (something which many Bulls fans at the time were keen to point out).
Surely if the Bradford pack was only just shaded by Hull's on Sunday (as FA suggests on another thread), then the scoreline would have been much closer? If the pack were so good, then are the backs THAT bad??? I'm not so sure they are.
If the forwards are getting on top then results must be simply a matter of time and patience? Or is this not the case?
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| You can't fault the efforts of Burgess, Scruton, Lynch & Morrison when they've played. All 4 have been playing well despite the poor team efforts. Menzies has also had a decent game or two without ever really looking spectacular.
As far as the backs go, with the exception of Nero who seems to have improved quite a bit, they've been all round very poor. The likes of Sykes, Sheriffe, Platt, Tadulala, Jeffries & Deacon have all failed to impress in almost every way this year.
So I would say the assessment of our forwards still doing quite well but the backs being awful, isn't actually that far off.
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| Quote ="DILLIGAF"You can't fault the efforts of Burgess, Scruton, Lynch & Morrison when they've played. All 4 have been playing well despite the poor team efforts. Menzies has also had a decent game or two without ever really looking spectacular.
As far as the backs go, with the exception of Nero who seems to have improved quite a bit, they've been all round very poor. The likes of Sykes, Sheriffe, Platt, Tadulala, Jeffries & Deacon have all failed to impress in almost every way this year.
So I would say the assessment of our forwards still doing quite well but the backs being awful, isn't actually that far off.'"
Spot on assessment. Skill level in the backs seems non existent
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| TBF the Bradford pack held their own on Sunday, they set a decent platform that the halves and backs were unable to utilise. When the ball was shifted out wide it all fell apart time and again.
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| Quote ="scarrie"TBF the Bradford pack held their own on Sunday, it was when the ball was shifted out wide that it all fell apart time and again.'"
We hardly shifted it anywhere to be fair. Our game plan these days is five drives and then a kick to the opposition full back.
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| We were woeful yesterday, and I'm not having a go at Hull (no really I'm not) but the scoreline does not show just how bad we were. Hull deserved to win, but to only beat us by 12 points may flatter to deceive the Hull side. Bradford have been on a steady decline since their over-acheiving 2005 season. All the fans know it, the coaching staff know it and you would like to think that the management know it by now. We have 3 stand out figures who are flogging their guts out in both attack and defence - Menzies, Morrison & Burgess. They cannot win on their own. They are all class players in a "team". Until we have a full team playing, without dropping the ball, giving away silly penalties and being out of position, these guys will not be in a winning side. Burgess will get injured long term if he's played most game time as is happening now. Menzies and Morrison are both fit for their ages, but not carrying the rest of the team for the full 80 mins. McNamara made a statement at the fans forum that unfit or non achieving players would be dropped from the team and replaced with players hungry for a chance. Thats not happening is it? Give the youth a chance. If the first team players are crap-drop them for a match. If they're injured, let them recover (Newton a case in point). Also can we please bring in an under 16 coach to show the team, ball handling skills and how to pass a ball into the bread basket.
Rant over
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| Quote ="Mrs. Slocombe"We were woeful yesterday, and I'm not having a go at Hull (no really I'm not) but the scoreline does not show just how bad we were. Hull deserved to win, but to only beat us by 12 points may flatter to deceive the Hull side. Bradford have been on a steady decline since their over-acheiving 2005 season. All the fans know it, the coaching staff know it and you would like to think that the management know it by now. We have 3 stand out figures who are flogging their guts out in both attack and defence - Menzies, Morrison & Burgess. They cannot win on their own. They are all class players in a "team". Until we have a full team playing, without dropping the ball, giving away silly penalties and being out of position, these guys will not be in a winning side. Burgess will get injured long term if he's played most game time as is happening now. Menzies and Morrison are both fit for their ages, but not carrying the rest of the team for the full 80 mins. McNamara made a statement at the fans forum that unfit or non achieving players would be dropped from the team and replaced with players hungry for a chance. Thats not happening is it? Give the youth a chance. If the first team players are crap-drop them for a match. If they're injured, let them recover (Newton a case in point). Also can we please bring in an under 16 coach to show the team, ball handling skills and how to pass a ball into the bread basket.
Rant over'"
Something that has been said on our board, we have dominated every single game this season and have taken our foot off the gas, yet i trust the players, once partnerships and fitness get to optimum levels to cut this "gear change" out, and close games out properly
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| Quote ="Irregs #16"Something that has been said on our board, we have dominated every single game this season and have taken our foot off the gas, yet i trust the players, once partnerships and fitness get to optimum levels to cut this "gear change" out, and close games out properly'"
I didn't think we were in the game yesterday. We were clueless and have been for every game this season. We cannot kill off a team at the moment when in a position to do so. Nothing will change without a change in tactics (management) and better player skills, not dropping the ball, crap passing and stupid penalties (players).
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| Quote ="DILLIGAF"You can't fault the efforts of Burgess, Scruton, Lynch & Morrison when they've played. All 4 have been playing well despite the poor team efforts. Menzies has also had a decent game or two without ever really looking spectacular.
As far as the backs go, with the exception of Nero who seems to have improved quite a bit, they've been all round very poor. The likes of Sykes, Sheriffe, Platt, Tadulala, Jeffries & Deacon have all failed to impress in almost every way this year.
So I would say the assessment of our forwards still doing quite well but the backs being awful, isn't actually that far off.'"
Everyone in our pack is holding their except Terry Newton.
He has been abysmal this year so far and has offered nothing whatsoever. He's out of contract at the end of the year I believe. Shouldn't he be busting a gut to earn a new one, if he wants to stay.............
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| I thought the Bradford pack did well for about 20 minutes after Hull went 12-0 up. At that point it looked like they may have taken the ascendancy and Newton had his best spell but Hull fought back. One thing that I noticed was that the Bulls seemed totally knackered after about 30 minutes and in the last quarter. Is fitness an issue ? Over the whole game Hull's pack was the better in my opinion.
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| Quote ="Staffs FC"I thought the Bradford pack did well for about 20 minutes after Hull went 12-0 up. At that point it looked like they may have taken the ascendancy and Newton had his best spell but Hull fought back. One thing that I noticed was that the Bulls seemed totally knackered after about 30 minutes and in the last quarter. Is fitness an issue ? Over the whole game Hull's pack was the better in my opinion.'"
They seemed ok to me. We seemed to be better, quicker in the last 10. It looks to me like we are knackered for the first 60 minutes!
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| Quote ="debaser"They seemed ok to me. We seemed to be better, quicker in the last 10. It looks to me like we are knackered for the first 60 minutes!'"
We look fitter than last year when we had players with hands on knees after 60 minutes in most games.
Accounting for Lynch and Langley not being match fit I don't think we have to look too hard at fitness.
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| Fair enough you've seen more of your team than me it was just something being commented on around us on the terraces.
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| Quote ="Mrs. Slocombe"We were woeful yesterday, and I'm not having a go at Hull (no really I'm not) but the scoreline does not show just how bad we were. '"
The problem with your post is you sound like someone who came expecting to see - maybe in some strange way wanting to see - a woeful show by the Bulls, and you've convinced yourself that it was. It wasn't. It was a keenly fought contest between us and a very good Hull team which isn't leading the league for nothing.
You then have to explain how the difference on the scoreboard is just the 2 tries made by flashes of brilliance by Thorman, which would have worked against any team, and the only way you can explain the scoreline is to pretend that Hull were fairly poor too, but "not as bad as us". It's a crazy way to watch games. We did plenty against hull, including some very good and well worked tries, and we had plenty of chances to score more.
Quote ="Mrs. Slocombe"Hull deserved to win, but to only beat us by 12 points may flatter to deceive the Hull side. '"
In fact you could better argue that the score was fair, as a reflection of the full 80 minutes. I'd reckon most Hull fans would second that.
Quote ="Mrs. Slocombe"McNamara made a statement at the fans forum that unfit or non achieving players would be dropped from the team and replaced with players hungry for a chance. Thats not happening is it? Give the youth a chance. '"
What, like bringing in James, Cook, Kopczak and now Crookes, and demoting Platt to the bench? No, can't see it happening.
Quote ="Mrs. Slocombe"If they're injured, let them recover (Newton a case in point). '"
Well we would, except that our interchange hooker sadly has a broken leg. Credit to the injured Newton for putting his hand up.
Quote ="Mrs. Slocombe"Also can we please bring in an under 16 coach to show the team, ball handling skills and how to pass a ball into the bread basket. '"
I know it looks very poor at times, but seriously you don't actually seriously believe, however badly at times it looks, that U16 passing skills are what's needed? I mean, be sensible.
I'd say that some confidence would be top of my list, and despite losing we did see a lot of good stuff as well as some infuriating stuff vs. Hull, and above all to somehow solve our 2009 halfback problem, which is the scrum half Jeffries trying to play stand off (and to his credit slowly improving; the absence of the much-maligned but now sorely-missed Iestyn Harris, and a very unusual and steep dip in form of Deacon.
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| If you look at the stats on Super League, the Bulls have the worst amount of meters made of any super league side so far this year. Actually nearly half of Wigan have done.
Hardly an argument for a good pack.
Excepted you have played one less game though.
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| Quote ="debaser" Our game plan these days is five drives and then a kick to the opposition full back.'"
You need a Plan B.
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| Quote ="DISA"If you look at the stats on Super League, the Bulls have the worst amount of meters made of any super league side so far this year. Actually nearly half of Wigan have done.
Hardly an argument for a good pack.
Excepted you have played one less game though.'"
As it was Wigan who overran us, it's hardly rocket science that their stats after so few other games are much better than ours.
Your point that we've played 25% less games than the other teams does make the rest of your post, well, pointless.
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| Quote ="Ferocious Aardvark"icon_confused.gif
As it was Wigan who overran us, it's hardly rocket science that their stats after so few other games are much better than ours.
Your point that we've played 25% less games than the other teams does make the rest of your post, well, pointless.'"
Not really. Because if you assume you will make the same average you have made currently and add this on, you will still be only 9th in the meters gained department. Again hardly a reflection of the forwards laying a good platform.
edit.... sorry that should have said 12th. Harlequins would go up to 9th.
Whats your excuse this time?
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| Quote ="DISA"Not really. Because if you assume you will make the same average you have made currently and add this on, you will still be only 9th in the meters gained department. Again hardly a reflection of the forwards laying a good platform.
edit.... sorry that should have said 12th. Harlequins would go up to 9th.
Whats your excuse this time?'"
Excuse? What has any of this got to do with "excuses"?
The position we are in at the moment is not great. But that has little to do with the pack. But anyway, my knowledge of how the pack is playing is based on watching it play, and you trying to "disprove" this by weirdly trying to draw some overstretched "conclusions" from some random statistic is actually endearingly bonkers. Thanks for giving me a chuckle.
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| Quote ="Ferocious Aardvark"icon_lol.gif
Excuse? What has any of this got to do with "excuses"?
The position we are in at the moment is not great. But that has little to do with the pack. But anyway, my knowledge of how the pack is playing is based on watching it play, and you trying to "disprove" this by weirdly trying to draw some overstretched "conclusions" from some random statistic is actually endearingly bonkers. Thanks for giving me a chuckle.
'"
Well said mate
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| Quote ="Ferocious Aardvark"icon_lol.gif
Excuse? What has any of this got to do with "excuses"?
The position we are in at the moment is not great. But that has little to do with the pack. But anyway, my knowledge of how the pack is playing is based on watching it play, and you trying to "disprove" this by weirdly trying to draw some overstretched "conclusions" from some random statistic is actually endearingly bonkers. Thanks for giving me a chuckle.
'"
Perhaps excuse was the wrong word. But the stats would show that your view on the pack is incorrect.
The opening posters questions appear to be backed up with stats. My own comments on page one of the other thread, which were written two months ago, before the season started, appear spot on.
There is no doubt tha on paper its fine. In reality it is far from that.
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| Quote ="DISA"Perhaps excuse was the wrong word. But the stats would show that your view on the pack is incorrect.
The opening posters questions appear to be backed up with stats. My own comments on page one of the other thread, which were written two months ago, before the season started, appear spot on.
There is no doubt tha on paper its fine. In reality it is far from that.'"
Stats, or indeed paper, should not be confused with reality, and the evidence of your own eyes.
This particular stat, far from "showing that my view of the pack is incorrect", is a team stat, not a pack stat, and shows [unothing[/u, at all, specifically on the pack.
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| Quote ="Trimalchio"are the backs THAT bad??? I'm not so sure they are.'"
The Bradford backs are awful.
Nero and Sykes in the centres? Deary me.
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| Quote ="kingmonkey"Everyone in our pack is holding their except Terry Newton.
He has been abysmal this year so far and has offered nothing whatsoever. He's out of contract at the end of the year I believe. Shouldn't he be busting a gut to earn a new one, if he wants to stay.............'"
You'll notice that I deliberately didn't include Newton in my list of forwards that have been playing well this year for us.
Quote ="debaser"They seemed ok to me. We seemed to be better, quicker in the last 10. It looks to me like we are knackered for the first 60 minutes!'"
Fully agree. The last 10 to 15 minutes of the game, we actually played fairly well. Sadly, the first 65 to 70 minutes, it was like a bloody circus at times.
Quote ="FearTheVee"The Bradford backs are awful.
Nero and Sykes in the centres? Deary me.'"
Then you haven't seen Nero play this year. He's improved massively for mine and was our best player yesterday (and was rightly voted as our man of the match). The only match he hasn't looked decent in was the Wigan one. Can't argue with Sykes though.
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| Quote ="DILLIGAF"Then you haven't seen Nero play this year. He's improved massively for mine and was our best player yesterday'"
He is very very average. The bulls have probably the worst centre pairing in SL IMO, perhaps with the exception of Celtic. I genuinely believe that.
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