You're correct in what you say, but even if English lessons were available (which they are actually) getting people to attend is a problem.

The way many Asian, predominanlty Muslim, communities and households are structured doesn't allow the freedom to the females that we would accept as a norm.

You're not likely to see droves of Pakistani mums trotting off to evening classes.

Of course, these mums are bringing up the kids, who as a result of their mothers lack of English literacy, end up entering school with an appalling grasp of English. I've seen this first at my kids school.

So, these kids are on the back foot straight away. Many can be sorted, particularly in a school like ours go to, because its a decent mix, ant there's a good chance of pulling them around, but I can't say the same for predominantly Asian schools.

My mother is an immigrant. The first thing she did was learn English. But she was allowed and encouraged to.

Which is why I questionned whether it would need to be compulsory.

Personally I think they should be. Free lessons are available (I helped deliver some a couple of years ago) and while the recent immigrants from Eastern Europe seem to be keen to take advantage of these the "Pakistani community" seem unwilling.

My dad came over in the early days of the mass immigration from Pakistan and, along with most of his peers, learnt the language - however the families of the initial wave started arriving and once the numbers started to build I guess it no longer became essential to do so, as there were plenty of other people around who you could speak urdu to.

I think aj also makes a valid point about the role and status of women.

No government will ever make it compulsory for people to take English lessons because certain factions would kick up a fuss, I've been called a racist myself for saying I believe it should be compulsory, but without it any efforts to completely integrate our communities will be undermimed.

I agree that it's a problem across the board whether it's white or Asian young men. I live a long way from Bradford in a very white area, but we have the same problems, particularly on warm summer nights with lads racing each other and tearing around to impress girlfriends. There is a subtle difference however and that is the car fulfils a specific role for the Asian lads, whilst a lot of the white lads will hang out in pubs etc (with all the resultant problems) Asian lads have little in the way of 'free' social space - that is outside of observation by family, biradari networks etc. The car is therefore [ithe[/i social space, a place to meet, hang out, listen to music and escape.

What worries me is that a lot of this bravado and threatening behaviour from white and Asian young men does get backed up by actual violence. I admit to being a pain in the ar$e when i was younger but generally had enough investment in my future not to push things too far. A lot of what i see now indicates people have no sense of their own possibilities or idea that there are things to look forward to that shouldn't be risked by getting sent down. If you have no sense of respect and possibility in your own life it's unlikely that you'll give a toss about anyone else. Consequently you end up with this arrogant, agressive, macho nonsense that is all about the moment and what a big man they are, which of course is exactly what they're not. Young people are always volatile, but they need a sense of purpose and investment in their lives, if that's missing you've got problems.

I come from a society where women of my mum's age knew their role & status. Consequently she has spent 60 years serving my dad's increasing needs, to the complete detriment of her liberty. I had this discussion with my partner last night, she thinks my mum should have buggered off years ago, I wish she had but understand why she hasn't. This situation is, hopefully, uncommon now in traditional UK society, probably largely due to access to the media.
I believe that UK Pakistani families bring in uneducated peasant women because it gives control over these women, & probably deliberately exclude them from education. As I have posted on here before, my partner did some equal opportunities training at Bradford Uni, the head of the section had recently been on a city visit to Mirpur. Her opinion was that there is more progress being made with female emancipation in Pakistan than in Bradford.