So basicly Hull didn`t win it,it was Saints lost it?

Never seem to have heard this reasoning in past season's??? Hope some of the younger players do not read it, as they may take it as Gospel!

It is not a crisis and it when the team need your support more than ever, but bringing out rose tinted glasses is not the answer! something is not quite right with the team and most supporters know it.

I for one feel the League is what counts, a team who plays week in week out well deserves the highest honour like the Premiership in football, the competition at the end of the season is nothing but a money raising event and extends the season with a chance for those who did not play well! of course in my opinion!

You've obviously never read my posts in seasons previous to this then. What a magnificent honour to finally be able to read them it must be for you!



Errrr..... Fancy reconciling those 2 statements there, buddy? Those glasses of yours are about the rosiest I've ever come across... It doesn't matter what you, I or anyone else thinks about the league vs. playoff system, the fact remains that the team that lucks out at O/T is the team that goes into the record books as "Champions". The poor saps who waste their time and energy on being the best side and finishing top of the league are no more than a footnote. I don't recall Eddie and Stevo gleefully proclaiming after each Leeds score: "A try for the Champions! Although they weren't really as we all know of course that Warrington were by far the best team and the true champions last season, and we all really recognise them as the real champions instead of Leeds who just lucked out really after all!" on many Sky games I've seen? I don't remember watching the 1000s of Warrington fans pogoing with delight on the flatpack terraces after going out in the playoff semi last season as they were already the real champions after all and who cares about an O/T appearance, right?

You can correct me if I'm wrong but I doubt I am....

Noone cares and it doesn't matter who finishes top anymore - deal with it. It makes me a sight angrier than it does you that this is the case believe you me (read any of my dozens of rants on the subject that you now have the delight of being able to discover), but it is the case. Saints need to grind out another dozen or so dodgy wins over the next 6 months and then everything resets to zero as far as the race for the "championship" is concerned. We look to have the squad of players and (hopefully) the coaching to beat anyone when it matters. It doesn't matter a hill of beans how we're performing now.

No way are Eddie & Stevo ever going to knock what is in fact "The Sky Knockout Trophy" for the top 8 teams!

And this would search archived threads we cull from the database to save server space how, grandad?

You're worse than News International for deleting evidence.

I left Langtree park in an extraordinarily bad mood on Friday and in order to avoid it getting any worse, I've been avoiding the message for fear of being riled by the usual suspects. I've not read any posts and after I leave this will leave again until I've simmered down.

The performance stank, simple as, but I place a minor amount of blame with the players.
The forwards won the hard yards and, before Broughton pulled one out the bag, we were starting to get on top of them, especially when we had both Perry and Tony P on at the same time.
We weren't dropping off tackles. The left side was a bit shakey and Hull were having [isome[/i joy down that side, but nothing horrendous.
The completion rate and kicking weren't awful either.

The problem lies in completely predictable, 1 dimensional rugby. People will probably have criticised Lomax, but he hasn't become a bad scrum half over night, his main crime on Friday was trying too hard. Take a look at his options when he's receiving the ball, he's got none. The defence know he's either going to run it, or spread it to Gaskell, allowing the defence close to the ruck to stack up on him.
We've no movement off the ball, no fluidity, no organisation in attack. Hohaia got caught in posession too many times and I'd normally criticise a hooker for that, but if he's not being presented viable runners its going to happen. People used to complain about Jammer's tendancy to force a short pass, but even simple tactics like that aren't appearing.
We look like 17 players who haven't practiced a single move all week.

Players don't become poor over night, and we've got a squad that is capable of competing at the right end of the table. The blame for what is becoming a debarcle lies almost solely with the coaching staff.
I'm not a season ticket holder this year, so Friday night cost me the best part of £50 for me and the wife, so arguments that Royce managed to pull things round last year, its all about peaking at the right time etc aren't really striking a chord with me.

I was never Daniel Anderson's biggest fan, whilst he had some great strengths I thought his weaknesses were covered by an outstanding squad. However, if I were McManus, I'd be on the phone to him asking what his plans were for the rest of the season.

I'm a positive, glass half full, things will turn around, look on the brightside, it could be worse kind of guy; but I can't stomach much more of this .

Agreed!!!

Saints are saving their set allocation of form for the end of the season when trophies are handed out.

This way they can finish 5th/6th, be rewarded with a home tie and thereafter an easier route to old trafford.

I think this is the major problem with us at the moment from what I've seen.

We just look badly organised with ball in hand, nobody is taking leadership in the halves and directing us around the park. We don't have a Sean Long / Lee Briers type player who tells the forwards where to run and communicates with his half back partner to organise the set plays. We often go one or out or the moves stop at 6 or 7 because we aren't organised enough to challenge the defence. Whilst I think Gaskell is a good player, I think he's struggling a bit at the moment and I've never really been convinced with Lomax at 7. Lomax is a quality player, but he doesn't have the passing or kicking game to play in the halves for me. We're badly lacking an organiser, a leader to move us around the pack. There's no lack of effort from the side and we have shown improvements in defence, but the team are going nowhere with the ball in hand. I'd give Wheeler a shot at 6 personally. I'm not saying he's the answer to our problems, but our current 6 and 7 isn't working. He was a player in form and has barely been seen since he signed his new deal.

To be honest this is where someone like Wilkin should be stepping up. He's the only experienced pro we have (excluding Hohaia who is still finding his feet) with a head for tactics. The moment he saw Lomax and Gaskell falling to pieces he should have assumed responsibility and led the side. I've defended Jon for years. He's an outstanding pro who's been consistently undervalued throughout his career. And I appreciate he has a testimonial this season which is a lot for any player to organise. But right now we need his influence more than ever - and Royce should be stressing this point to him in the most unmistakable terms.

I think Lomax's rombustuous play and bravery lends itself well to that 1st receiver role. He has the confidence to work at the line without worrying whether or not he'll get a whack.
However, he should be taking the line on with options.
He should have a runner back on the inside and one on his outside shoulder, aswell as the long pass to Gaskell.
We've no inside runner and the runner on his outside looks everybit the dummy by moving half heartedly, so the defnce know'seitherLomax will run it, or spread it to Gaskell. This means the A and B defenders (as P Cullen refers to them) stack up on Lomax and the wider defnders arenever distracted andsucked in.
So why are the runners never in place? Some blame could be laid with Lomax's organising, but if lads are doing it in training all week, they're not just going to stop for the match, are they?

One of the most irritating things about the past couple of weeks for me.

I completely agree with this. He, Gardner and Wello are now our longest serving players. Wello just throws his hands around and sulks when anything goes wrong - useless for a captain - and Gardner is three sheets to the wind on most occasions. Wilko is the only one who has what it takes. For me, make him joint captain and charge him with the responsibility of leading the team. Make it official.

that is the best advert for buying a Saints season ticket I ever heard....you might as well play behind close doors for 6 months.

Oh joy. Even if it was trolling, yesterday's 'required attitude adjustment' has made that comment far more hilarious.

You won't get any arguments from me on that one. Superleague might as well be played behind closed doors these days.

Most people on here know my opinion on Jon wilkin in that I don't think he's a top class but I gave him plenty of praise last year and thought he was the best backrow in super league.

Im pretty shocked people are now calling him for the way he's playing this year, he's been like this for most of the past 6 years!

Obviously last years form was for new contract.

In terms of leadership though it's a narrow field and Wilkin is the obvious choice, if he is not the best choice to lead us who is. But the monkey has a good point too. A leader on the field can only implement what the general has ordered. So Lomax maybe playing the calls he's been told to, the fact they are not good enough plays does not mean they are being implemented incorrectly.

Individual plays during the course of the match when facing an opposition by nature unpredictable are not going to be called by the coach. That is the job of the leader on the pitch. Normally that would likely be the scrum half, in terms of playmaking anyway, but ours is too inexperienced and prone to panic.

Wilkin has the most nous on the pitch now and is one of the most experienced players. He should step up and do the business and the players should listen to him.

He's not doing a very good job then and should take his fair share of the blame.

To be honest, if Wilkin possessed the kind of leadership qualities we need right now he'd have exhibited at least some evidence of such throughout his playing career. Yes, he has assumed kicking responsibilities in the past. But mostly in isolated games. He has never shown sufficient consistency to warrant kicking duties over extended periods - as Paul Sculthorpe did on numerous occasions. He is a reliable third option who functions best working alongside better players.

I'm skeptical whether - at this stage of his career - he can change his game sufficiently to make a difference.

As for the wisdom of offering long-term contracts to player approaching the veteran stage of his career I'm similarly skeptical. That said, it's not like there's an endless conveyor belt of quality players to pick from.



I have some reservations about Royce's tactics. I do think we are standing far too flat. For Lomax - who I don't think is a natural scrum half - this seriously eats into his thinking time and the result is the kind of panic passes we saw on Friday night. We would be far better served standing just that little bit deeper thus giving Jonny more time to evaluate whether or not a pass is truly on.

I think that comment is a bit extreme. I think he starts to try too hard when he is not being given any options, That's the fault of the support runners and not his!!

Yes, once we're on the pitch, its the lads job to call the plays, but our problem isn't an innappropriate choice of play. We're not spreading the ball wide too early, nor is the problem that we're keeping it tight when it should go wide, we're not kicking short when we need to go long for territory. The problem is two fold - simple narrow moves close to the ruck are non existant whilst wide moves we call are slow and akward (not to mentioned having no space, thanks to the lack of narrow plays). I would suggest this is a training ground problem.

Wellens is the main issue in attack as we have to wait for him to catch up with play or attack with 12 men which makes it very easy to deal with.