I am not so arrogant to suggest the reason for this thread is that saints haven't won anything this year, if you read my threads on redvee, i have been particulary happy with the season, as i wasn't expecting us to get anywhere near the grand final.. What my beef is is the genuine decline in quality of superleague across the board, this includes lying of from saints.. I find the national league games far more exciting to watch.. I can see further than my own team's success for a better, more entertaining superleague.. Even when saints had years of no success, games were still exciting to watch, with good tries scored, the only try that stands out for me this season is huddersfield's first try in the semi final.. If this had been a cas fan who started this petition, would it have been so vehemently argued against?

True. But at least he should have known the difference.

FWIW, nothing today is as funny as this thread. It's just made a miserable, wet, grey day seem like glorious midsummer. Definately deserve the Entertainers tag..

What i suggest you do is have a good think about matches that didn't involve your own team, that you've watched on sky, and think how many of them you have genuinely enjoyed as a spectacle? Some fans are getting hung up, saying i'm doing this because we've lost a grand final, i can appreciate that's how it looks, but i would also say to you that if the games were quicker, i could see saints struggling further, and leeds further ahead

I'll dig out plenty of articles but you'll have to look on Redvee.

I'll dig out those from 2006 and 2007 too if you want. In fact, I do know I started a thread about this whole deal on RL Fans Virtual Terrace in February of 2007. You'll have to wait till tomorrow night though.



The reasons our average crowd increased were duty a variety of reasons

1) The fact that free season tickets were doled out willy-nilly to juniors for the price of a shirt

2) The early season games had some bumper crowds, notably the 17,000 for the opening day game against Warrington which makes up nearly the entire increase. A study of our gates shows a very sharp and serious decline throughout the course of the campaign, well before we relinquished top spot and were knocked out of the Challenge Cup.

3) Crucially, this is the first season that Saints have counted non-attending season ticket holders in the official match day attendance figures.

The crowd decline has been severe and is likely to continue down to worrying levels next season due to the rotten standard of entertainment on offer. It's a lot of money to spend when you come out of almost every game not having received value for money.

Whilst, of course, you will not see this as you are rightfully lapping up three titles in a row, it's nothing to do with us not winning things. In fact, we were told not so long ago that we were spoiled by success and were bored with winning. Not so, we were bored with the slow, predictable, monotonous 'entertainment' served up by ourselves, the opposition and just about every game witnessed on Sky.

Whilst we are getting ill-informed accusations that we are only bemoaning the game because we, as a team, have lost our way, it's interesting that the only fans on here trumping modern day Rugby League to be entertaining are Leeds and Warrington fans who, in their excitement about having finally hit upon a bit of success, are blinded to the fact that that game is now at it's dullest level since the abolition of the unlimited tackle era.

It truley is the gift that keeps on giving!

In all of this the saints fans fail to realise how amusing it is and how many out loud belly laughs they give us on a day to day basis right now! I've never seen a set of fans take Losing so hard! But then again it is 3 on the bounce. I do have genuinly sympathy for em( but only a little)

Here's one from the summer of 2006, which was probably the first time I flagged it up. There are many more I'm sure. www.redvee.net/readarticle.php?article_id=376

Here's one from the summer of 2006, which was probably the first time I flagged it up. There are many more I'm sure. www.redvee.net/readarticle.php?article_id=376

2007 it was a "one off, fluke result",
2008 it was the "rain"
2009 it's "the game has declined so far even Leeds can win the title"

Not only do we get to do you lot again in a GF, but the Brucie Bonus come along a few weeks later.





You just don't know how much fun this is.

We were beaten by the better team on the day, three years out of three. Nobody disputes that. You were a better team than us full stop in 2007 and 2009. I've no arguments. I don't even care at the moment.

You might think it describes me but I think that the phrase " if all else fails, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through" describes you.



You really just read things that you want to see rather than actually digesting the point made. You can win it for the next five years for all I care as long as we get our game back.

Its strange how quickly some leeds fans are to point out the fact we're all such poor losers when what is actually happening here is you guys taking every oppotunity to gloat about your victories. We do all know what you've won and there's not many who argue your merit, so coming on here and filling a thread trying to rub our noses in it smacks of either lazy trolling or a general lack of grace.

If you lot reckon he's just complaining because we've come runner up for a couple of years, you obviously don't know what D.D. stands for.

Saints won three CC in a row, and I have to admit those finals were a tad crap...The best final I've seen in the last 5 years was the Leeds v Hull CC..

You have to be kidding right? Now I know you're making all this up.

Ok. Nobody with a brain. I do accept this rules out 95% of the RL Fans lot.

According to a few Saints fans on an Internet forum. Please don't confuse your opinions with facts because they're not opinions that I share.

I love the "finally hit upon a bit of success". You would think Saints were the team that had been champions four times in the last four 6 years. Further display of Saints fans' arrogance.

Quote ="D.D."Here's one from the summer of 2006, which was probably the first time I flagged it up. There are many more I'm sure. www.redvee.net/readarticle.php?article_id=376'" You need Prozac mate. Ok, I'll accept you've been a miserable b[iasta[/ird for a while and your moaning has nothing to do with Saints lack of success. Anyone else? BTW, This game that "has never been less exciting as a spectacle" is still a game you watch and write about 3 years after making that comment? Do you understand that the moves brought about to slow down the PTB this year are designed rto stop exactly the kind of play you were moaningabout in 2006?

Quote ="D.D."Here's one from the summer of 2006, which was probably the first time I flagged it up. There are many more I'm sure. www.redvee.net/readarticle.php?article_id=376'" You need Prozac mate. Ok, I'll accept you've been a miserable b[iasta[/ird for a while and your moaning has nothing to do with Saints lack of success. Anyone else? BTW, This game that "has never been less exciting as a spectacle" is still a game you watch and write about 3 years after making that comment? Do you understand that the moves brought about to slow down the PTB this year are designed rto stop exactly the kind of play you were moaningabout in 2006?

That's right, "finally". Until recently, you had won one Challenge Cup and one Yorkshire Cup over a twenty year period. Hardly unqualified success was it? However, now you are winning the Grand Final regularly, suddenly the game is more entertaining than it's ever been!

Well, if we are going to be accused of moaning about the game because we won nothing, we might as well look at it from the other point of view to get a bit of balance.



As it happens, I'm pretty sure the likes of Peter Sterling and Garry Schofield, two pundits who don't suck up the Sky propaganda that you obviously believe yourself, have come out and said the same as the likes of me on more than one occasion.

The current Leeds team might well be one of the more mediocre as far as talent and ability is concerned, but it's never a good idea to use anything that flows from Schofield's mouth as the basis for an argument.

I forgot to add ... unless it's to hit him over the head with.

Quote ="OoOGazOoO"If anyone can provide a link to a thread where Ade Gardner said that Leeds can be caught, when Leeds were clear atop of the league, where Leeds fans were being arrogant, cocky and generally idiots, then i will happily concede that not all Leeds fans are obsessed and arrogant.'" Be very, very, very careful what you wish for... viewtopic.php?t=355242&start=0 It really gets interesting around page 10, but please read the response from the initial Leeds posters to Gardners comments on the first page.

Quote ="OoOGazOoO"If anyone can provide a link to a thread where Ade Gardner said that Leeds can be caught, when Leeds were clear atop of the league, where Leeds fans were being arrogant, cocky and generally idiots, then i will happily concede that not all Leeds fans are obsessed and arrogant.'" Be very, very, very careful what you wish for... viewtopic.php?t=355242&start=0 It really gets interesting around page 10, but please read the response from the initial Leeds posters to Gardners comments on the first page.

I agree about the moves brought about to slow the PTB down. The RFL knew the game had become monotonous and dull and tried to do something about it. Unfortunately, it's not worked as yet. Hopefully it will one day but that is partly what has made this season so bad. Before, it was all bashing each other down the middle, a few scoots, a few kicks and little in the way of pace or thrilling passages of play. Now it's exactly the same but without the scoots so much.

It wouldn't be so bad if the game hadn't suddenly become littered with pathetic handling errors and shocking passes from acting half back. What's that all about? Players can't even keep hold of the ball or pass it straight despite never trying anything more tricky than shoving it up their jumper or passing it two yards to the side. It's boring enough without the ball going to ground every few seconds.

I am still there out of duty and the love of my team. The great hope is that this is a blip in the game's history and we will, one day, get back to being the greatest game again.

There's been lots of positive stuff written over the years but if the entertainment factor is grim then I'm not just going to idly sit back and tell everyone it's fantastic entertainment when watching paint dry is more exciting and, is probably less predictable than watching five drives and a kick.

If you want to spend the rest of your days watching teams boring their opponents into submission, good luck to you, but the sharp decline in attendances is going to continue because the public will not be fooled for much longer.

yes, but when have Leeds fans proclaimed that the game is more entertaining that it has ever been?

Just because we haven't joined your petition and general despondency don't assume we've made claims that we actually haven't.

Just to ensure one thing here, just because people like DD and I bemoan the loss of flair and ingenuity in recent seasons does not actually mean we have signed this petition.

Like Dave said, and has pointed out with adequate examples, we have mentioned this for a long time.

The problem is people coming on here with a pre-defined conception of what they want to believe so they can have a good rant.

Quote ="DHM"Be very, very, very careful what you wish for... viewtopic.php?t=355242&start=0 It really gets interesting around page 10, but please read the response from the initial Leeds posters to Gardners comments on the first page.'" Great thread though I felt it suffered from an absence of Saints posters from about October 2008.

Quote ="DHM"Be very, very, very careful what you wish for... viewtopic.php?t=355242&start=0 It really gets interesting around page 10, but please read the response from the initial Leeds posters to Gardners comments on the first page.'" Great thread though I felt it suffered from an absence of Saints posters from about October 2008.

Edited for accuracy. Should I get banned from here any time now for a differing opinion?

As much as I would like my team to be challenging for honours every season. I would willingly sacrifice that and have them as a mid-table side (for a couple of seasons) if we could just have a SL that provides entertaining rugby for all fans of everyteam. This last couple of years the entertainment value of SL has dropped year on year. I have not been excited at all watching the rugby this year. It has become 'boring ' if that is the right word to use. There have been occasional games that have proved to be OK but overall it would get the thumbs down for me this season. There have been many poor games on SKY this year.

These 3 perhaps...

HKR 26 v SAINTS 10

SALFORD 20 v SAINTS 10

CELTIC 0 v SAINTS 4