It's interesting to note that Percival has bulked up significantly over the off season, he is now:

4kg lighter than Jonny Lomax
The same weight as Lance Hohaia
1kg heaver than Luke Walsh
1kg lighter than Gary Wheeler

So he's not as skinny as we think him to be anymore, admittedly he is slightly taller than the others but not by much. It could be a good year for him.

Didn't makinson play for knights last year - aka rep honours

I do fear he will go the way of Gardner ... But the Wigan home game has gone someway to dispel my concern.

Melis defence is too weak to be considered "best super league centre" - his tackle to missed tackle ratio is shocking! (97:30) - turner, who saddened claim is dire in defence is (465:49) roughly 3x better! Jones, who I'd call a defensive centre is (640:20). There's no doubt Meli is great in attack, but it's easy to be when you do so little defensive work!

I'm genuinely struggling to name someone who would be a standout contender for best centre ...

I don't think his size was a problem. He could do with being bigger but I don't think it was a major concern.

Brown took him out because he was missing tackles but imo he was just being targeted as he was young and wasn't just ready at that moment in time. We know he can tackle as he was exceptional in his first few games against big clubs but like I said, he just wasn't ready at that time and Brown was correct to get him out.


With ball in hand, he was our go to back.

From the St Helens Star:



He does look like he's beefed up a bit.

Looks good.
A raised a point a couple of years ago that the skinny/wiry kids like Foster and Gaskell, Tomkins from the other side and Roby going back a few years seem a lot more durable than the chunky lads like Eastmond, Lomax and Wheeler (all of whom were having injury periods around that time).

Going back to the Turner to Stand off.
I think most would say that Turner has done a good job at Centre. Far better than the much vaunted Shenton.

Now if you look at his skills as a player and the skills that Kevin Brown had when playing centre. Brown (the coach) has taken a somewhat shakey but decent centre in Kevin Brown and moulded him into a Stand Off.
If he can do that there is an arguement that he has form for taking players from one position and finding them a better one.

Even with Lomax last year he showed that he can take a player who has played one role and find a better position that matches their skill set.

I think benefit of the doubt should be given on this one as his form for moving players is good. It does worry me that in the Centre's we will be at bare bones.

Kev Brown has a rugby brain and good hands.

Are you saying that brown was a better centre than turner is? That's a very harsh judgement!

If turner doesn't have those, what does he have?

Yep, but when he was playing Centre I would not have rated him highly enough to play halfback. He would not even have been in my list of top 5 centres.

No, I'm saying brown was more suited to stand off than Turner.

I'd never have put Brown as a stand off ever, so lets see if Turner can make the move too.

If not we have not lost much as 6 was always going to be our weakest link this year.

To be fair, Brown was a stand off all throughout his junior days so it was hardly a shock when he was picked there for Huddersfield.

I think its worth a very limited risk.
We were going to struggle to fit percival, jones and turner as centres, and we are really struggling for any semblemce of a standoff.
If it doesnt work we're no worse off. If it does, like Lomax to FB, we could uncover a real gem

Fair play - though i think that's a lot easier to say in hindsight!

Didn't turner start as a lock? He should be used to some playmaking roles.

If he's going With Turner, I'm happy to go along with that but IMO he should get a good run at playing 6 and not moved back to the centre after few bad games and then back to 6 when lance stinks the place out. Put him there and stick with him.

I like Brown and think he's a very good coach. KC and the lads talk very highly of him and how training is do good and interesting but I don't like his constant messing about with the team.

I agree mate, needs a good run to settle there. With Walsh next to him, it should take alot of the pressure off him

I agree that last year Brown took his honeymoon period to the max. But I do think some of it was needed.

I would have preferred he shock the team up in the first few games then settled. I'd give Turner 6-8 games at that point it should be clear if he can cut it. If all the games are unmitigated disasters then I'm sure Wheeler or Lance will be back in place.

Kev Brown was almost always a standoff at Wigan. I think it was Brown who moved him to centre and loose forward. He does like to tinker doesn't he?

He's done the similar with Michael Lawrence, who was an outstanding prospect at centre and now finds himself as back up second row.

Whilst not wanting to derail the thread...

Kevin Brown at Wigan played

18 times from the bench
35 times wing/centre
14 times at Stand off
2 times at FB
1 time at LF


At Huddersfield Brown has played

13 times at centre
125 times at Standoff/halfback
2 times from the bench
21 times at LF


So I beg to differ.

It is true that in his final season at Huddersfield he played LF for almost the full year. But it's also true to say that in his last year at Huddersfield there was a lot of shuffling players about.

But your memory of him at Wigan must be failing you. Unless you are counting games outside of the first team.

With regard to Turner at 6.

I look at this a number of ways.

It may be Nathan Brown throwing a curve ball and trying to get opposition coaches off balance as to what our team structure will likely be.
Then again it could be about making various players know that their position on the pitch isn't guaranteed, I'm not merely thinking of Lance in that regard. I'm including Turner, who despite winning the clubs player of the year last year, may find himself displaced by some of our young guns at centre if he doesn't keep his standards up.

I am also conscious that coaches have to think not just for now, but also even a couple of years down the line with regard to the structure of the squad. Therefore its essential to have "irons in the fire" through developing players talents, so that they may be able to fill a position when a vacancy occurs. In two years time both Lance Hohoias contract and Luke Walsh contract are up. We could lose both players. In such a situation we would need someone with experience at the club to step into one of the positions, otherwise we will be deep in trouble having to find two halfbacks. It therefore makes sense to spend some time developing Turner, so that he can play standoff if the need arises. Ideally of course we will bring through a junior, or a miracle will happen and Gary Wheeler will be over his injury problems.

I also think that by developing Turner as an optional standoff it should develop his game awareness. This will improve his footballing ability and as a side result make him a better centre.

Personally I think once the season starts we may go with Lance at standoff, but then after 30 mins take Roby off and move Lance to hooker with Wheeler coming on at standoff. Lance could then go off the field at the 50 minute mark and be replaced by Roby for the last 30 mins. I appreciate this looks somewhat disruptive for Saints,however it makes it harder for clubs to target Roby and Lance to tire them out. England did something similar with Roby in the world cup.

I was, I watched him from being 16 years of age and he was predominantly stand off. He is probably the one player from that group who has left Wigan that I would have kept ( Hansen is another but he did stay for a long spell)

Why is this in bold for dramatic effect? You state that as if Hohaia is a positive influence. I really don't see what relevance the expiry of two players' contracts in two years time to Jordan Turner being moved to stand off.

Lomax, Jones, Percival, Walsh, Soliola, Wilkin, Hohaia, Masoe, Clough, Flanaghan, Beaumont, Dawson and Charnock are all out of contract at the end of 2015. Walsh has an option of a 3rd year. If we lose ALL those players, then yes we certainly will be lacking some experience ...and players!

But just because he's named at 13 doesn't mean he's being asked to do a traditional loose forwards job. We played with 3 pivots on occasion last year and the man named at 13 was playing a half back's role.

Well in that case fair enough. But Turner has also played other roles before so it's not completely out of the blue.

Same for Lomax to FB etc.

I got it wrong on Brown anyway (Kevin). It was Jon Sharp who moved him to 6 not Nathan. I had not realized he had been at Huddersfield for as long as he was.