That's when Tommy Martyn came in handy.

I am not sure which Bobbie Goulding some people were watching - but the one I saw was a much better scrum half than Sean Long.

Sean was a player who for years relied on his foot speed to make him look special (which it did) but only years later did he become an organising scrum half.
Bobbie Goulding was that organising scrum half right from the get go - his kicking game and vision was at times without peer in this country. Alright we all know he p1ssed it all away with poor attitude and bad judgement, but so did George Best and is still probably the most gifted Britsh Footballer.

I would not complain about either player being picked in a top Saints side, especially as there is no criteria for why a player is picked as we have here.
If it is just the most gifted scrum half I would go with Gouldding, if it the best scrum half to have played for St. Helens then I would go with Long for his consistancy and longevity (but dont let this cloud your memories people as there are plenty of people on here who have been screaming for Longs head for years)

As for the Wingers - if we have to go with 2 wingers for me Albert has to be a shoe in, but I think many posters on here have been remembering Sullivan with rose covered keyboards, the guy was a liability under high balls, luckily it was Goulding that introduced this tactic to the British game and it wasnt as wide spread as it is now - or else I am afraid that he would be the Gardner/Meli/latest scapegoat of his time. He played on confidence more than almost any player I have ever seen and when his confidence was low you may have well played Stuart Evans on the wing.

Alan Hunte is a very good call for the other wing spot, when the 2 played together he was always - to my eyes - the better player.

But I would be tempted to take a leaf out of the Australian selectors handbook and pick a 3rd Centre on the wing, maybe Iro or Lyon or Gidley - how lucky have we been with centres over the years

Read the team above that statement, Martyn is in it!

I was stating that Martyn would be in that team ahead of Pryce because of his passing ability.

I used to hate it when Sully ran from the dummy half. He was the most hopeless dummy half runner I've seen. Always got hit for zero or less yards.

He WAS good at ghosting into midfield and coming onto a short ball. Couldn't understand why he didn't do it more often.

alot of aussies picked

1. Paul Wellens
2. Allan Hunte
3. Jamie Lyon
4. Paul Newlove
5. Anthony Sullivan
20. Tommy Martyn
7. Sean Long
8. James Graham
9. Keiron Cunningham
10. David Fairleigh
11. Chris Joynt
12. Lee Gilmour
13. Paul Sculthorpe

Subs

14. James Roby
15. Sonny Nickle
16. Fereti Tuilagi
17. Paul Anderson

1. Wellens

2. Albert
3. Lyon
4. Newlove
5. Sullivan

20. Martyn
7. Long

8. Fairleigh
9. Cunningham
10. Graham
11. Joynt
12. Gilmour
13. Sculthorpe

14. Roby
15. Perelini
16. Britt
17. Pryce

Apologies to Iro ; Gidley; Goulding; Tuilagi ; Wilkin ; and so many more .

1. Paul Wellens
2. Fereti Tuilagi
3. Jamie Lyon
4. Paul Newlove
5. Darren Albert
20. Tommy Martyn
7. Sean Long
8. Apollo Perelini
9. Keiron Cunningham
10. David Fairleigh
11. Chris Joynt
12. Jon Wilkin
13. Paul Sculthorpe

SUBS
14. James Graham
15. Darren Britt
16. Derek McVey
17. Matt Gidley

Second Row ?

Signed as a winger, moved to second row by Hanley, I believe.

I always hate it when people mention Derek McVey in such threads:

One, because it instantly gives ammunition to those who have slated the standards of superleague

Two, because the guy had about 10 good games and lives off a particularly good performance against Wigan

Three, because he was guilty of some of the most appalling errors that madfe Roy haggerty's performance against Wigan in 1989 Challenge Cup Final look good. Off load from 5 yards from your own line against Brisbane ring any bells. the Aussies practically fell over laughing at that blooper.

And finally because the guy was so good that he was signed by Brisbane, I mean St. George, I mean Parramatta... oh sorry, some team in the sticks.

Derek McVey - the Tony Yeboah of SuperLeague.

whaaaaat..no ricky bibey?...

[size=59Although I think you're doing a diservice to Yeboah with that.[/size

Aye, because he was dump on the wing.

Jon wilkin in the best saints 17 in super league!!!!!!!

Christ we must have had some poor 2nd rows!!!

He may well have had a better kicking and passing game than Long, although I believe that people are overrating his skill in both those facets of his play i.e. Martyn was a better passer and Goulding didn't really have a long kicking game. People forget just how great Long has been with his big game temperament and it's in the big games that you make your mark as a player. Iro was never a week-in week-out star, however put him in a big game and he was brilliant pretty much throughout his career. Long's record speaks for itself and at his best he's been better than Goulding.

Bobbie goulding is the best scrum half I've ever seen play in the years I've watched rugby.

He had the lot. Rugby brain, clever,passing, kicking, goal kicking and more.

If he could have sorted his life out off the pitch he would have lifted many trophys for saints.

He was a proper scrum half with all the cheek.

Bobbies biggest weaknesses were as follows:-

He demanded to control everything in the team. As a result Tommy Martyn was a peripheral figure when Goulding was playing, and only really blosomed when Longy was partnering him, as they shared the workload and complimented each other.

He had no pace.
He was a head case.

He wasn't that slow.

Tommy had no pace at all!

Bobbie was impottant as he was 1 of the players that turned saints into winners.

I also know bobbie very well and he is great bloke always willing to help.

He did have few problems when younger which was down to drink but that never effected how he played for saints.

He is 1 of hardest trainers you would ever meet.

Also he loved saints and still does now

On his day, bobby was masterful. The following statement is not meant to take anything away from that.

The first season he joined (94-95) and the nary season, bobby was imperious and oozed class (international class even?). Despite winning the league in '96, Bobby's form wasn't [iquite[/i as high (still impressive), but Tommy's come back (and Karl Hammond's reletively good form) through the season took pressure off.

'97 rolled around, Bobby was sent off in the Wigan clash and handed and 8(?) match ban. Its interesting to remember that before this game he'd requested a transfer, which he retracted following the red card. Tommy Martyn (not Lee Briers) then guided us to Wembley.

After that, Bobby's input was less than awesome.

Does anyone remember the evening game at Headingly when we lost by 1 point? We'd scored, not far from the posts but Goulding hit the post with the converstion. Now, does anyone remeber Long slotting one from the touchline at OT in '99

So here are my analysis of the players as I see it.

Goulding. Made for the job, his cockyness and enthusiasm help make him everything you wanted in your 7, but unfortunately, he couldn't quite keep control of his demons and they got the better of him.
He did however, always play with a smile on his face, and [imade[/i you enjoy watching him.

Long. As a youngster his game was based on pace, swerve and little more. He's overcome 3(?) serious knee injuries to claim the LT 3 times. His technical game has developed enormously, especially since DA got the coaching job.
If Goulding had Long's mental resiliance, he'd have been one of the all time greats of the game.

Tommy. The conosuer's choice. The smartest kicker, craftiest footballer, the silkiest skills, and the best all-round half back. Could play 6 or 7 with aplomb. Goulding may have been the star when we got to the top, but Martyn kept us there. Also battled back from numerous serious injuries.

Hammond? A man of peaks and troughs, probably down to the fact that I don't actually think he liked playing rugby that much.

The way I see it is long ain't got half the brain bobbie has.

Long ain't been good for 3 years now coz he lost his pace. He can't take control of a game the way a scrum half should be able to but in his prime was so fast it was unreal.

Bobbie is the scrum half we are crying out for now. He can control the pace of a game and lead us round the park. IMO he just edges long as he didn't just depend on pace but both was greats for saints.

The tommy and bobbie half back pairing didn't was as well as long and tommy due to the fact they was both ball players and liked to do the same role.

I know for a FACT that saints wanted to team bobbie with Harris before he went to Leeds but mr goulding pi$$ed that up.

And yet prior to the arrival of Danny McGuire he scored more tries per game than any other SL stand-off. And that includes Henry Paul and Iestyn Harris.

He didn't look all that slow (especially off the mark) when he finished top of the try-scoring charts at Saints. Goulding could only dream of that.

I also recall Tommy Martyn scoring a number of Trys from inside his own half, especially in his younger days at Saints.
Certainly in his later years he slowed down, but then so do all players. Sean Long used to be capable of 15 to 20 trys a season, but now only manages a couple.