flannery shouldn't be renewed for mine, solid etc, everything you dont want from a quota spot

It has though, I and a few others first noticed it against Wakefield at home last year. They scored a few tries where Wellens was just too slow to stop them, where as the year before he'd have been there and tackled the player. Some people will have seen it before then, some later. As I said before, the World Cup was when it became obvious that his lack of pace was becoming detrimental to his game.



He was an excellent full back. A definite club great (but not a game great). I've never advocated getting rid of him, just putting him in a position where his lack of pace isn't as exposed. I agree with what you say, but if he'd been an Aussie Saints fans wouldn't have got as defensive over him.

Same as Hooper was for me, but without the added benefit of a regular clattering of Lee Briers

by the time he left us hoopers shoulder was held together with sticky back plastic!

One example, great try that it was though. But he didn't go the length on his won did he? Still took two players to score. I did actually state 'when did one of our 3/4 last go the length of the field'. Or at least 70 metres even to score? Meli in the cup final aside.

You can cover his lack of pace up with two speedy wingers.....oops...... Then again......

Probably spot on. Yes he is solid, good tackler, dependable, but hardly scores, and is nothing out of the ordinary. If he was British it would be fine but it's at prop and centres/winger were we need an Aussie import, simply because that is where we lack quality in the UK game.

Agree with the above, but there is a practicle reason why Flannery is not needed and that is that we need another forward with the ability to break tackles. Flannery is not that type of player. Probably struggles playing in a side that plays 5 drives and a kick.

Wello is versatile enough to play ok in the back row. However he would be about 8th choice, behind specialised forwards who would do a much better job.

so would you release him? I'd keep him for his tackling and defence

Back on tpoic.

I think Potter did some great things at Catalans but I thought his comments about "slowing the game down" and "mysterious injuries" etc. towards the young players of Hudds was a bit below the belt...

Some really good discussion here. I agree that we have a problem with Wellens. In many ways, he's escaped too much scrutiny because the more pressing problem has been how to replace Long and Cunningham, as Eastmond remains a bit patchy, and Roby appears to need a long holiday to recharge, as he's a shadow of what he was.

However, I'm with Mugwump on the essentials. One of the reasons the likes of Roby is struggling, and Wellens isn't making the supporting breaks down the middle is that we simply don't have the props any more. Our successful years were built on having four very effective props : Anderson, Cayless, Graham, Fa'asavalu, Fozzard were all amongst the best props in the competition, and we always had at least three in the side at any one time. They provided the go-forward which allowed us to get away with lightweight back-rows and slow threequarters.

With decent props, the likes of Wilkin is making breaks through a retreating defensive line, Roby's scooting from dummy-half, and Gidley has a lot more space to work with. Compare that with tonight and Wilkin is running sideways trying to find space, Gidley gets a defender before he gets the ball, and Roby is dragged down by prepared markers. We have one class prop at present - Graham, and he's looking like he's been carrying the pack on his back for months. Clough, Hargreaves, Ashurst, Emmit all seem to come from the same factory which made Bennet - solid, medium-sized toilers. You can afford one in your pack for his tackling, but they're never props who will win you any silverware. Puletua doesn't look convincing at prop, despite his size. He was far more effective at the beginning of the season when we still had at least two decent props out there and he could run a bit wider.

The symptoms of our problem might be that our backs are starting to look ineffective, but the cause of those symptoms is the lack of decent props.

A careful and well constructed post but I think your missing a key point.

In the last couple of years there have been a lot more quality imports and a lot more faster players coming through the ranks at clubs. For instance, I think that the back 3 are almost as important as front rowers interms of starting sets well early and getting a "roll-on". Therefore go-forward is far more a collective issue than a front-row issue.

Consequently, a few returning props won't fix your problems IMO - it's almost as if your team is playing in 2006 mode and hasn't responded to how the competition has evolved in terms of game plan and recruitment.

Saints will be a top-four team again next year but days of winning silverware are long gone whilst your team continues to persevere with such a slow back 5 and whilst a clutch of your players are collectively coming towards the end of their respective careers.

I think next year we will see Wellens be primary Fullback, but i expect Lomax to play a number of games in that position, as well as the odd game at centre or wing whenever an opportunity arises.

It appears to me that the coaching staff are fast tracking Lomax into the first team, as he is getting 1st team opportunities whenever possible, and at an extremely young age.

2011 is the year i would expect Lomax to assert his authority on the fullback position.
He will be 20 then and should therefore be good enough to be starting matches regularly.

Lomax was very poor tonight.

Spot on. You only have to look at Hunt, Slater, and Brett Stewart to see the importance of a fast attacking full back.

I recall earlier in the season that you said 3 of your youngsters would be playing for England within 3 years - that just is not going to happen.

Eastmond is a class act and an international player in waitin gbut the others are no-where near this class and will feel the pinch as it dawns on them the responsibility of living up to the past few years.

Rubbish.

I wouldn't say he was rubbish but he's no centre is he. I've seen one or two glimpses (Against Cas oddly) but not much tonight.

Christ you're boring.

No. I meant what Rogues said was rubbish!

Lomax didn't do too badly.Whilst he was hit by a high tackle,it seems our youngsters are prone to injury.Eastmond,Wheeler,Dean,Dixon play one game and then miss 3.If we are to rely on these guys in the seasons to come,they need to toughen up.

I'd agree with that. Flannery is to much like wilkin. The both tackle but do nothing with the ball.

We have to many players like that.

The problem with potter? HES OUR COACH THATS THE PROBLEM.

My nephew has played with a lot of these young guys and apparently the real deal will be Shaun Magennis. He's a second rower who can break tackles all day long and is rated by his peers as the best of the bunch of lads coming through.

Hope he gets a chance soon.